Russian torts and alfalfa

[Mnash0915]

I have a new Russian tort named Harry. He is new to us but he isn't a baby but I'm not sure how old. He is about 5" in diameter. We have had him about 2 weeks and just recently he started eating after the shock of moving. I make him a nice big salad every day after his soak but all he want to eat is the alfalfa that I have I the corner for him as a little something extra. He will not touch his greens. I even give him half pellets and half greens because I think that is what the pet store fed him so I have some for him but I want to gradually get him off of them. But the big problem is right now that is all he will eat is the hay. Is this a problem? Should I put some vitamin d powder on the hay? I keep offering the greens and pellets and hay but I don't know what else to do
Thanks in advance!!
Michelle

 

[dmmj]

You mention greens, what type of greens do you feed?
I only ask because my russians like certain greens, though to be honest there is very little my guys won't eat.

 

[Laura]

dry hay? they usually dont eat that..
He must like the smell.. so I would take some of the alfalfa and mix it with his greens or sprinkle on top, and remove the stuff from his corner.
he needs to be re trained what to eat and where.

 

[Mnash0915]

I am feeding him turnip greens, kale and spring mix plus some chopped carrots
I thought he would love it
Yes it is dry hay! I was shocked! I read a tort keepers website when I was setting up his cage that suggested having some of this alfalfa in there for grazing that was why I had it in there for him. But since it is the only thing he will eat i think it is strange. He really munches it down! It is safe for him to eat it?

 

[CactusVinnie]

Let him eat what it wants to, if he choose from the accepted list of weeds- turnip, kale and carrots should never be offered, or only once/month, but in the active season, when outdoors. What is the "spring mix"?

In fact, at this time, they should be already in deep sleep, but for overwintering this time, don't use vit. D!
Wrong dose, and it will do much more harm than no vit.D at all. He will not decalcify right this winter; bad diet, lack of brumation and linear temperatures (indoor keeping) will lead to accelerated growth- this will be done without the right amount of calcium, and this is the wrong way of keeping tortoises.
Overwintering him in a more "autumnal" manner rather than "summer-accelerated growth" will not allow him to gain "weak", decalcified weight, nor lose weight until spring.
Try to keep him in a cool room, 12-17*C, with 10 hours of light, in an enclosure provided with a deep tray with slightly moist garden soil to hide (not dry, not sticky, well granulated).
The heat/light bulb should be powerful enough to help him raise his temperature as he wants, up to 30*C; for instance, a simple 200W bulb at 25cm, with a reflecting "hood" will do.
Fresh drinking water permanently, and warm (25-30*C) bath once a week, when the tortoise itself is warmed from prolonged basking.
For 2-3 days every 2 weeks, cut the light and heat, and of course, food. He will sleep like in a cold spell in a frost-free Mediterranean tortoise habitat. So, he will have a kind of winter after all, but without the risks involved by a true brumation for an unprepared tortoise and new owner.

BTW, where are you located?? Outdoor tortoise?

Good luck!

 

[Mnash0915]

Thank you! He is an indoor tortoise. We live in southern Indiana so he is in a tortoise house

Spring mix is just a mixture of a variety of lettuce like romaine and endive

What weeds do you recommend?

 

[Utah Lynn]

Alfalfa is very high in protein. Russians need high Fiber. I mainly keep my RT's indoors, except in summer when the sun shines. Grass hay makes a nice bed for them and they might nibble on it.

 

[CactusVinnie]

Spring Mix quite ok, but a little weak as nutritional value. Too cold now for dandelions, sowthistle, cichory, Cirsium arvense, plantain etc., but you may find some if no snow or very cold (?). Even juicy blades of grass are eaten- mines did last winter, until serious snowfall.
Key is slowing him, so the need for food will decrease. Aim for no weight gain/loss. Just conserving him in good shape till the spring.

Indoor now, but when spring came, can he go outdoors? It is a must. Overwintering indoors... it may work without visible problems, for a while, but not spending the April-October season outdoors, will be devastating for a steppe tortoise, even faster than for a Mediterranean one.

Hi, Utah Lynn!
Russians, indoors, in Utah? Your location it's a horsfield paradise- cold/hot, high, dry, bright ! And you got a nice infestation with the invasive weed Ceratocephalus falcatus - Burr Buttercup- poisonous for mammals, but 70% of their diet in habitat, for the most abundent 2 months in their cycle!!

 

[Laura]

Fabian, very interesting info. Some people chose to not allow thier indoor torts to hibernate, as they are pets and want to have them awake. But you are saying this is not a good idea ans they NEED to brumate..
Spring Mix here in the states is a staple for many. with added other veggies or weeds when they are growing. Its a good dark green lettuce mixture.

 

[CactusVinnie]

Hi Laura!

So much debate about brumating temperate tortoises, that I gave up!
I would say that I don't want to go against their true nature- they even can survive FROZEN SOLID for short periods!! No matter the standard type of questions "are there documented sources proving by scientifical research that non-brumating adversely impacts the tortoise health?"... and yes, we may choose to do various unnatural things for our pets, but we should not forget that they are not "our pets" by definition, but instead we are their keepers, and we should pay more attention in replicating the key features of their habitats- especially when it is so easy!

Bottom line: some people consider themselves as keepers- and those try to replicate nature as much as possible; others see themselves as owners, disregarding Nature's laws and enforcing theirs, for their pets. There is love in both sides, but a serious flaw in one of them.

Well, your Spring Mix should be a fine one, if it became a staple! I always had in mind a weakish salad of pale green and reddish leaves, but you are lucky with a good quality product.

 

[Utah Lynn]

Hi Fabian, It's Winter here now, so I have to get greens from the grocery store. In the Spring and Summer they roam the yard, CLOSELY supervised, and have a broad assortment of weeds they like to eat. I have lots of Dandelions, but they don't eat many of those.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Fabian:

I understand what you're saying about the tortoises and brumation, however, Michelle's tortoise is new to her. We always recommend that a new tortoise not be allowed to brumate the first year. This way (keeping the tortoise up) the new keeper learns the tortoise's habits and learns to recognize if the tortoise is well or may be a little sick.

So, Michelle: You should chop up some dark, leafy greens into tiny particles and mix it in with a bit of alfalfa hay. You would keep adding more greens and less hay over the next weeks/months until he's eating greens and no hay at all. If he stops eating, then you've tried to go to fast...back up and add fewer greens. It may take a very long time to change him over to a better diet.

 

[CactusVinnie]

Hi Fabian, It's Winter here now, so I have to get greens from the grocery store. In the Spring and Summer they roam the yard, CLOSELY supervised, and have a broad assortment of weeds they like to eat. I have lots of Dandelions, but they don't eat many of those.

Mines are asleep now, I should spend a fortune to keep them active .
Have you met the infamous weed at your place? Where are you, exactly?
I read that not only the West, but the Midwest states have been infested. It is listed as native here, but not much favourable patches, so it is a very rare plant. In fact, it was only signaled by professional botanists that wrote monographies and did lots of fieldwork... I want to establish an arid patch here, to grow it- it would look fine between hardy cacti.
Problem is not finding it, although looked for it a lot. I will ask an American tortoise or cactus-fellow to send me some seeds.

In the heat and scorch of Summer, the staple was the humble Bindweed- Convolvulus arvensis. It was in fact the most appreciated by all small tortoises, including T. ibera hatchlings. The large ones too, but a little difficult to deal with the tough, fibrous stems.
So, another noxious weed that became a helper!

---

Hi Fabian:

I understand what you're saying about the tortoises and brumation, however, Michelle's tortoise is new to her. We always recommend that a new tortoise not be allowed to brumate the first year. This way (keeping the tortoise up) the new keeper learns the tortoise's habits and learns to recognize if the tortoise is well or may be a little sick.

Agree! I have myself 8 late arrivals that are kept "active", with intermittance- NOT brumating! They do very well on this regime.
Brumation ONLY for proved healthY and fit ones!

Another type of fine winter food: Opuntia pads, cleaned of glochids (tiniest spines at the base of large spines). I am lucky to grow them outdoors, and I have to deal with dehydrated ones: cleaning the pads, slice them and let them soak in a little water for 10min. Quite a slimy result , but full of calcium and the tortoises go crazy for it!

 

[Mnash0915]

Thank you all so much!!
He will get to roam in the yard in the summer. It gets quiet warm here for a few months so I want him to spend a lot of time outside because I know it is good for him. Right now I am trying the dark leafy greens as well as the pellets that he was being fed at the pet store. I will use the hay and combine it with the greens to try to get him away from the hay. We have not had any snow yet so I am still getting clove and dandelions from the yard too. He will be thrilled when spring gets here because I have a ton of plants in my garden that he will like to much on.

I really don't know anything about hibernation. I have read tons of conflicting reports. I want to make sure he is healthy and happy in his new home and then next fall I will do more research. I have so many questions and I just want to do what is best for him

Thank you all again for all the input!!!
Michelle

 

[CactusVinnie]

Happy overwintering for you both !
In the Spring, first build him an enclosure with a hiding place with southern exposure; let him out first time in a sunny and WARM day, at min. 15*C in the shade, back indoors for the night; after a week, you can let him outdoors (that would be mid-end April, but beware of long rain spells!), he will go by itself to the hiding place for the night. Avoid the shocks from warm to cooler, especially for a previously indoor tortoise! All these precautions because he may will be very fragile, and sudden change to cool nights and cool wind (even with sunny warm days) may lead to respiratory problems. Those can be solved spontaneously, without treatment, just through basking and good food, but better avoiding it.

Good luck!