Russian Tortoise -need advice.

[d3r]

Hi. I found this site googling questions. Ive read every basic care sheet but haven't seen any benefit from them.

my gf has a female Russian tortoise. She strictly follows the basic care sheets but the results are no good.

weve read that its bad for them to grow too fast. And "pyramiding" is also bad. And we think our Tortoise is doing both and we want to correct it before it gets out of hand.


The problem is..we do everything by the book already so we dont know how its happening.

She feeds for 20mins every day or everyother day. No more than the size of her shell.

Regular baths.

Goes on long hikes around the house.

What is causing this? Shes starting to pyramid amd there's a halfinch band around her shell where you can see her acceleration of growth.
help..she keeps asking me how she can fix it and I cant get a straight answer out of google... so im asking you guys!

Thank youuuu

 

[dmmj]

Basic cause of pyramiding is growth in a dry enviroment.
So what's your humidity at?

 

[russian/sulcata/tortoise]

welcome to the forum! pyramiding main is caused by lack of humidity is a tortoises environment, also party by diet. whats the cage humidity? what the russians diet? can you post some pics of the enclosure and the tort? whats the cage temps cool side and basking spot? do you provide a UVB light? it is normal to see a lighter color of growth between the scutes.

 

[d3r]

Haha I shoulda known you guys would need more details. SHE is the main caretaker of the tortoise (her name is "Tortilla"..like the chip)

Ill ask her to give me a run down and ill post it in the morning along with a pic of Tortilla and her enclosure!

Thanks. .sorry for being premature and unprepared to answer your follow up questions. Were new to the tortoise world.

 

[russian/sulcata/tortoise]

Haha I shoulda known you guys would need more details. SHE is the main caretaker of the tortoise (her name is "Tortilla"..like the chip)

Ill ask her to give me a run down and ill post it in the morning along with a pic of Tortilla and her enclosure!

Thanks. .sorry for being premature and unprepared to answer your follow up questions. Were new to the tortoise world.

its all good dude. but i highly recommend that both of you read this care sheet http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/ its important that the tort is given proper care.

 

[d3r]

I did read that before posting. And im almost certain she follows those guidelines pretty well. (But something must be off right??) So thats why I decided to post to get more direct specific answers.

Ive discovered theres a ton of conflicting care sheets though so we'll see.

Ill have her read this and update in the morning.

 

[Yvonne G]

It's pretty difficult to get a Russian tortoise to grow pyramided, so I have to wonder if what you're seeing is really pyramiding. We'll need to see a picture of the tortoise. The thick yellow band is just new growth. It is perfectly normal.

 

[d3r]

ok heres the run down.

UVB light is on 12hrs a day as well as the heating lamp.
Humidity is at 35-40%

cool end reads 68degrees
hot end reads 80degrees

substrate is Alfalfa hay (recommended by local pet shop)

Soaks every other day for 20 mins
and then fed after soaking.

portions the size of her shell.

diet mainly consists of:
Endive
Escarole
Dandelion
Mustard Greens

sprinkled with Calcium supplement once a week.
Also has a Cuttle Bone in her enclosure.

 

[Yvonne G]

Your tortoise is not pyramiding. It looks very good.

However, there are a couple things I see that should be corrected - the screen filters out quite a bit of the UVB rays, so your tortoise is not getting the benefit of the UV from your light. (What kind of UV light is that?) Also, get rid of the hay and find some substrate that you can moisten. Even dirt from the back yard is better than hay. My substrate of choice is orchid bark (the fine or small grade). Sink your waterer down into the substrate so the tortoise doesn't have to stretch his neck up, over then down in order to drink. They don't bend in the middle and being put in that position is a vulnerable position for the tortoise. We don't recommend that type of waterer for BABY tortoises, but your grown tortoise should be fine with it...just sink it down.

(Incidentally, what you have there isn't "alfalfa hay", it's grass hay. But either way, get rid of it)

 

[Tom]

Here is the problem with doing "everything by the book". There are lots of "books" out there and each one is written by a different person with subjective and different opinions.

This tortoise is not pyramiding, but the new growth is looking very dry, which is not good. Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. Your conditions are too dry, but still your tortoise is old enough and large enough to not pyramid.

That bedding is hay, not alfalfa, and either one of those is much too dry.

My care sheet that was linked above will explain what substrates to use and also how to make a humid hide.

If you are using a coil type bulb in one of those hoods I highly recommend you stop. Those can damage tortoise eyes.

The diet needs much more variety and should be made up more of high fiber weeds and leaves and less grocery store lettuce.

The soaks are good (and probably what is saving this tortoise from dehydration) and the temperatures sound good, but what is the temperature in the basking area directly under the light?

Over all this tortoise looks fine. THe only things I would recommend are:
1. Change the substrate to something that can hold moisture.
2. Cover part of the top to help hold in some humidity.
3. Make a proper humid hide.
4. Get rid of the coil bulb and replace it with something safer.
5. Get a terra cotta saucer for the water bowl and sink it into the substrate.
6. Add much more variety to the diet.
7. Don't let the tortoise loose on the floor.

Over all this all looks pretty good and so does the tortoise. The above tweaks will improve things even more. A larger enclosure will be needed soon and a large secure outdoor enclosure should be made for the warmer months.

Here are a couple more links to help out:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/

 

[Heather H]

Hi and welcome. . There are many posts from other newbies like me. Look though some of those. I am learning and tweaking his enclosure every day.

 

[d3r]

Thanks for replies! We took the screen off and readjusted the heat lamps (currently looking for a uvb bulb that isnt coiled)

It looks like its coming down to the substrate.
The hay was recommended to us by the owner of the pet shop Tortilla was purchased from.
Went to google for reassurance and learned Hay is not so good. So we switched to coconut fiber(coir) that comes as a compressed brick also added some sand as directed.

the substrate ended up being too dry or too moist (molding) couldnt get any consistency out of it.

Tortilla also got it in her eyes and quit moving/eating completely.

The vet suggested we lose the coconut coir and go back to the hay.

so thats where were at hahah..all these different sites and care sheets are frustrating. ..everyone says different.


Also just want to make sure..These pictures of her shellare all nothing to worry about?
There seems to be a weird bubble in the 2nd pic.

 

[Yvonne G]

Naturally, we'd like to see a more even, all-over growth instead of that wide band around the lower edge, but I'm thinking it's because your tortoise is in such a dry environment. There are other options to use as substrate besides hay and coco coir. My favorite is the small or fine grade orchid bark. You can also use cypress mulch.

That 'bubble' looks like he has scraped up against something while the new growth was still a bit soft and hadn't hardened yet. I don't think it is anything to worry about. But he really needs more moisture in his environment.

We used to suggest mixing sand in with the coir, but we don't so much anymore. The coir is fine by itself. But try the orchid bark. I think you'll like that.

 

[d3r]

Alright..so we went out and bought some orchid bark. In the process of switching it out now.

How do we make it moist? Spray it down with a bottle? Or soak it?

Also how do we keep it constantly moist...spray every day or every few days or something?

 

[Heather H]

I started mine wet by dumping in a bunch of water. Each day I mix it up. It dries out on top. I add more water as needed.

 

[Heather H]

I mist the plants I have and my tortoise twice a day. He is still stressed and loves warm soaks so I soak him about an hour after I turn his heat on for the day so it's warm in there for him. I have had him for a week today so I am still learning. Mine is a Russian male.

 

[Tom]

That bubble and cracking around the new growth happens when things are too dry. You are fixing that situation now, so it should be a thing of the past.

Coco coir needs to be kept damp and you have to hand pack it down. It takes about two weeks to "settle in" and after that its a great substrate. Having said that I still prefer orchid bark for older russians like yours.

Every enclosure is different, so you will have to wait and get a feel for how much water to dump in, and how often, to get and maintain the level dampness you desire.

 

[d3r]

Thanks for the help everyone!
Ill report back when progress is made.

 

[d3r]

Well the bark certainly looks nicer..and has a decent smell to it aswell haha..

she immediately burrowed into it so thats good.

humidity is now between 45-65% pending on the lights being on or off.

 

[WillTort2]

I think you have made great progress in the few days you have had your Russian.

Welcome to the forum. Keep the humidity in the 50 to 80% range, having a deep substrate makes this easier. It does not hurt to mix the coco coir with the orchard bark or with just plain top soil. Getting the proper light is essential. And feeding a wide variety of healthy foods is a major key to raising a healthy tortoise.

VERY IMPORTANT! Make sure you protect your tortoise from your dog; dogs see the tortoise as a chew toy and can easily injure or kill a small tortoise like a Russian. Do not fall prey to the "but my dog would never do that theory"; many torts have suffered unnecessarily due to that thought pattern!

Good luck, and plan on building an expanded indoor and outdoor enclosure soon. Russians demand a lot of space and interesting terrain so plan on ramps, wall, hides, and turns. Remember they can climb and dig; so enclosure design to prevent escape is required!