Redfoot Aggression vs normal tortoise "bulldozing" behavior?

[nightoff]

I have a 3yo and a 7yo redfoot. They live in separate outdoor enclosures but on the weekends I sometimes put the 3yo in the 7yo's enclosure to roam around in a larger space. Today was the second time, that seemed to confirm, that the 3yo turned over the 7yo. I had observed in the past that the younger RF would sometimes push up under the older RF and lift one or two legs off the ground. Now I know that this can result in turning over the 7yo. I don't know if it is an aggressive behavior or just the younger RF "bulldozing" and the barrier just happened to be the older RF.

Obviously, I will not be putting the two in the same space to wander unsupervised regardless. I'm just curious as to the reason for the behavior.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Big Charlie]

I think it is aggressive behavior. I don't think they should ever be put together.

 

[Tom]

Without seeing it, it sure sounds like tortoise aggression to me. I have lots of tortoises living in groups and none of them ever "accidentally" knock the other ones on to their backs because the other tortoise was a perceived obstacle.

Tortoises should never be kept in pairs. Not even red foot tortoises.

 

[lisa127]

I'd say aggression.

 

[wellington]

Ditto on the aggression

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Redfoot are often calm. Maybe the calmest of the tortoises.
Sometimes I'll come across an individual that is more aggressive. Several times while gathering the group that I now have, I had to remove an individual that would not chill out.
Once you know that you have an aggressive animal, you must keep it alone. It can't be trained to act otherwise.
My biggest bully right now is a female. Not a male and not the largest. She lives with 4 other females and they have loads of room.
She bullies by sitting in the food and hogging the water pools. Nothing more severe.
Bullying can take several forms. Ramming and or biting are extreme for a Redfoot.

 

[nightoff]

Tom, to know if it is aggression, you would need to see a video of the behavior? I've attached a picture so you can see their relative sizes. Sex doesn't matter much? The 7yo looks likely to be female. The 3yo...can't tell yet, at least I can't.

Thanks to everyone who responded. I really appreciate the feedback.

 

[Tom]

I think that everyone who has responded agrees that this is a case of tortoise aggression and that they should remain separated. Even if this wasn't happening, they should not be together, as tortoises should not be kept in pairs.

 

[mike taylor]

You need more red footed tortoises about the sa me size . Two tortoises together is a bad thing . I house 7 together with no problems . Two never works out . Like they say keep them apart .

 

[ZEROPILOT]

It could be Christmas hat envy, too.

 

[mike taylor]

I was going to say I'd kick his butt for that hat to . Haha

 

[nightoff]

There may be a fight...there is no way Zip is going to fit into the cat collar this year.

I really only intended to have one rf but the 7yo, "Indy", decided to go on a 17 day "walk about" around the neighborhood while the house was being painted and in the mean time, I adopted a 2 day old hatching from a friend.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

There may be a fight...there is no way Zip is going to fit into the cat collar this year.

I really only intended to have one rf but the 7yo, "Indy", decided to go on a 17 day "walk about" around the neighborhood while the house was being painted and in the mean time, I adopted a 2 day old hatching from a friend.

I'm also in south Florida and I keep my RF group outdoors.
Your duo still COULD work with a very large outdoors pen with lots of room. Lots of hides and lots of plants. With or without adding one or two more tortoises.
Check out my YOUTUBE video: "Redfoot habitat Florida style".
It shows a very cheap and easy pen that works in our climate.

 

[nightoff]

I'll have to see how it goes and if I can convince my wife to let me use most of the back yard as a pen. Do you have iguana issues? I.e. Pooping in the pen and the torts eating it or hanging out in the pen. Or do you have everything screened?

 

[Anyfoot]

Sounds like aggression to me too. From what I'm experiencing the more torts there are the more distraction there is, so there is no one on one confliction, For example with a group a tort could be thinking about showing another tort aggression then a third tort appears and the dominant tort is distracted from the 1st subordinate tort. The bully can't control more than one tort is what I'm thinking, so it doesn't bother trying.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I'll have to see how it goes and if I can convince my wife to let me use most of the back yard as a pen. Do you have iguana issues? I.e. Pooping in the pen and the torts eating it or hanging out in the pen. Or do you have everything screened?

It's closed off to keep feral cats out.
I live a few blocks away from any canals, so I have few iguanas in my yard.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I'll have to see how it goes and if I can convince my wife to let me use most of the back yard as a pen. Do you have iguana issues? I.e. Pooping in the pen and the torts eating it or hanging out in the pen. Or do you have everything screened?

I convinced my wife by telling her I could tear down and remove the pen in a day if I needed to.
It's not permanent.

 

[nightoff]

I convinced my wife by telling her I could tear down and remove the pen in a day if I needed to.
It's not permanent.

Did your wife ask what you were going to do with the tortoises when you take down the enclosure?

Unfortunately, I have several iguanas on my property at any one time unless I have chased them into the canal. They eat everything I try to grow for the tortoises unless I screen the plants in.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Did your wife ask what you were going to do with the tortoises when you take down the enclosure?

Unfortunately, I have several iguanas on my property at any one time unless I have chased them into the canal. They eat everything I try to grow for the tortoises unless I screen the plants in.

The canals are their highway system!!
I'm not sure that people are aware of how aquatic they are or how well they swim.
I only get one or two passing through every now and then.
Even just chicken wire will stop them......Or a dog in the yard.