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saginawhxc

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I'm sorry I've caused so much trouble around here ....I understood about the heated hide and would never leave a tortoise near those [email protected] worries mate! Just want a tortoise that has a tough character around him.....
You didn't cause trouble. You asked a sincere question. Don't ever be sorry about that. We are all passionate about tortoises, and sometimes when passionate people have differing views things escalate a little too easy. You did not cause or aid that. You are fine.
 

saginawhxc

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I'm still unaware of anything I've suggested as far as care for a redfoot tortoise that was not accurate. I'd be tickled to death to hear how you keep them in their ideal conditions in Michigan. Anyone outside of Southern Florida in the United States doesn't keep them in their 'ideal conditions.'
What really is accurate when talking husbandry? You have been around long enough to know that people have conflicting views when comes to proper care. You can tell me that your way is the right way, but the way I learned is the complete opposite. Who is right? You? Or the people that instructed me? I simply said it isn't what I learned, and it isn't what many around here advocate.

Feel free to attack my position all you want. Debate is great, but the second you start getting snarky with me I start to lose interest in ever hearing your position. So maybe you should drop the condescending attitude towards someone who has ordered from your company several times, and recommends your company ALL the time to people. I don't directly know you, but I like your company and being as good hearted as I am I automatically extend that to you. Let's not shatter that.

As far as nobody outside of South Florida keeping them in their ideal conditions... If we are talking a tortoise that is outdoors full time I don't disagree, but isn't that kind of a silly argument to make on a site that is dedicated to sharing information and improving husbandry? Shouldn't the goal of keeping any animal be to always strive to give the best level of care that you can provide? So in Vegas you make sacrifices and changes, but you do the best that you can. In Michigan I do the same. That is what all of this is about.

Technically, Russians don't NEED a hidebox, they certainly don't have them in the wild, and when given better options, don't use them to hibernate in captivity. The majority of mine bury themselves in the root ball of plants in the enclosures.
I think you are losing sight of the fact that this whole thread was in response to a question asked by someone looking to acquire a tortoise. The best thing we can do is offer advice on what is going to be the safest style of husbandry for someone that will be a beginning tortoise keeper. I don't care what they "technically" need, I simply care to give the best advice that will keep his tortoises healthy. So maybe I shouldn't have said they "need" that night box, but I still would highly suggest it.

To be clear, I said "Either are going to need a night box with those temps anyways." That was in response to his suggestion, taken from your care sheet, that a red foot tortoise could handle temps as low as 45f. He made it clear that his choice was between a red foot and a russian, so when comparing the two I picked that 45f temp as a point of discussion. Your own website suggests a hide box for russian hatchlings and an ideal temp range of 55-90f for an adult. So why are you so upset about my suggestion that a russian experiencing temps as low as 45f should have a hide?

Pretty safe to say that a Russian is more cold (and heat) hardy than a redfoot. If anyone was suggesting that I said anything other than that, they should read my article again.

I think it's been clear that almost EVERYBODY on this thread agrees with you on that, and that includes me.

To re-summarize my comment that seems to upset you so much...

I said I respect your experience, but it your suggestions aren't what is generally taught around here.

I agreed with Tom that being able to "handle" temps as low as 45f is a different thing than being able to thrive in those temps.

I then addressed his choice between a red foot and a russian.

I concluded with a comment that should he get either, that he turn to the info on TFO rather than your care sheets.

I see where that last bit upset you, but I stand by that. I honestly feel that his future tortoise is likely to do much better following the information found on this forum. I'm sorry that this whole thread has upset you so much, but that is the danger of putting something up in the public eye. We are going to discuss it, and some times people aren't going to agree with you.
 
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TylerStewart

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Who was attacking your position? Who was getting upset about this? It takes a lot more than an internet forum to get me upset. I responded because I had customers emailing me telling me that people on TFO didn't understand what I was saying on a caresheet. My point was, there's nothing in my care sheet that I disagree with now. I could give a crap less if you guys want to use that information or not; nobody is begging you to run with it. When I suggest that 45 degrees is on the low end of a temperature that they can tolerate and then you carry on that number as if I suggested that 45 degrees was some sort of an ideal temperature for a redfoot, it's just you not understanding what you are reading. Again, the care sheet said maintain them at least in the 60s or 70s is better, for a night time temp in a heated hidebox in the winter, which is not what you're reacting to. Doesn't bother me, but before you get on discrediting it, you should have re-read it first (I'm still assuming you misread it the first time, because I don't see how else you would disagree with it). Redfoots are about the narrowest safety range tortoise there is (span from a tolerable low to high temp).
As far as nobody outside of South Florida keeping them in their ideal conditions... If we are talking a tortoise that is outdoors full time I don't disagree.
Would you then suggest that there is a way to keep them indoors in their ideal conditions? An indoor tortoise is never in their ideal conditions. About the only tortoises I can claim are kept here in "ideal conditions" would be Russians, greeks, hermanns and marginateds. Everything else is outside their comfort zone, one way or another (too hot, too cold, too dry, etc). That doesn't mean they won't breed, but they aren't in an 'ideal' setting, and I would dare say a redfoot in Michigan just can't be in an ideal setting, unless you have a full on greenhouse that ranges from 60-95 degrees. Or should we say, 50-95 degrees?

I want to debate redfoot care with you on Tortoise Forum about as much as I want a hole in the head, so I'll pass on that for now.
 

lisa127

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How come when I say it, it's wrong, but when Tom says it, it's right (kinda the story of my life around this forum, now that I think about it)? Did nobody read what was posted? Nowhere did I suggest keeping a redfoot tortoise at 45 degrees. It clearly says when night time temps reach 50ish degrees, a heated hide should be provided. I absolutely stand by what I said. It says right in the quote that they should be maintained 60+ degrees at night. You think they don't get 60 degrees in the wild? The last article I saw about redfoots in Reptiles Magazine (by someone I don't know or remember) showed two horribly pyramided redfoots breeding, pyramided to the point that they should never have published them in the magazine. If he posted those tortoises in this forum, you guys would run him out of town! Sheesh people.... Read before attacking, then I wouldn't have a dozen people emailing me about the craziness that's going on in this forum with my name attached to it LOL
I wasn't attacking. He said he wanted a tortoise that could handle cooler temps and was under the impression a red was better for that than a Russian. My belief is that a Russian can handle that better than a red....that's all I commented on.
 

lisa127

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And I do understand that you were addressing warmer temps in the article. But for whatever reason, the way it's worded left the OP with the impression that reds are more cold tolerant than russians.
 

TylerStewart

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I decided to get a cat........any recommendations.....
LOL, I'd definitely say go with a bullmastiff. They are great dogs. Just make sure if you get a redfoot that you follow a good care sheet (like mine, on Reptiles Magazine's site).
 

Anyfoot

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LOL, I'd definitely say go with a bullmastiff. They are great dogs. Just make sure if you get a redfoot that you follow a good care sheet (like mine, on Reptiles Magazine's site).
Can you give me a link to your care sheet please, I can't find it. Cheers.
 

Yvonne G

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LOL, I'd definitely say go with a bullmastiff. They are great dogs. Just make sure if you get a redfoot that you follow a good care sheet (like mine, on Reptiles Magazine's site).

@TylerStewart - Won't you go to your "new property" thread and give us an update (or make a new thread)? Last we heard you were having permit or zoning difficulties, but I think that was a couple years ago. I know we all would love to see new pictures of the property and see how your pens are coming along.
 

Semper Fi

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I have a lighting question while I'm here....My enclosure is set up with a 18" Reptisun 10.0 uvb 15 watt bulb. It is 12 inches above the enclosure. After browsing articles here at the forum, I fear I have the wrong bulb....should I have gotten a larger wattage bulb?
 

Tom

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I have a lighting question while I'm here....My enclosure is set up with a 18" Reptisun 10.0 uvb 15 watt bulb. It is 12 inches above the enclosure. After browsing articles here at the forum, I fear I have the wrong bulb....should I have gotten a larger wattage bulb?

Nothing wrong with that bulb, but for which species and what size enclosure? What other bulbs will you be using for heat and light?
 

Semper Fi

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Nothing wrong with that bulb, but for which species and what size enclosure? What other bulbs will you be using for heat and light?
Thanks Tom ...lol...no tortoise yet ...still looking for the right fit...between a Russian or Red...my enclosure is 4 long x 28" wide x 14 high. Closed top with cutout for a che and the reptisun 10 uvb 15 w
 

lisa127

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Thanks Tom ...lol...no tortoise yet ...still looking for the right fit...between a Russian or Red...my enclosure is 4 long x 28" wide x 14 high. Closed top with cutout for a che and the reptisun 10 uvb 15 w
Redfoots like dim lighting. So your one uvb with che would be enough for visible light. A Russian likes brighter lighting than that so you would want to add some visible light.
 

Semper Fi

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Ok then....I believe I'm getting a Russian....so I guess I'll go with a higher wattage bulb.....I'm think my enclosure is sweet for now but this summer will make one larger. Also making an outside one for the good days....
 

lisa127

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Ok then....I believe I'm getting a Russian....so I guess I'll go with a higher wattage bulb.....I'm think my enclosure is sweet for now but this summer will make one larger. Also making an outside one for the good days....
Higher wattage uvb? A second one I'd say. And a white daylight bulb for basking spot.
 

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