Please ad anything you know about "coiled compact florescent bulbs".

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Redfoot NERD

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Still not getting "How are these D3 things made available to our tortoises [ diet for my tortoises ] and turtles"..? Especially the basking tortoises that most seem to have on this tread

When my water turtles are under the coil bulbs to bask they are ( given the space to move as needed ) facing away from the light.. or are sleeping with their eyes closed.

And the redfoot tortoises.. ( as seldom as they are under the coil.. because they get their D3 from their diet.. so they have no need to bask ).. sleep the same way. I have again explained my set-up.

I have to suspect that these tortoises are subjected to entirely too many "rays" ( light or otherwise ) because they have no choice. Again this is based on no less than 10 years of receiving requested pics from 'keepers' showing how they have their habitat set-up. Virtually "flooded" with light!

EARLY ON the "standard" for habitat set-up was for mainly the African and European "BASKING" tortoises.. again EARLY ON.. which included a cool and hot spot with intense light/UVB .. to ensure that no MDB would transpire! How has this influenced what is being done today? Little.. some.. or is it the 'standard'?

To insure I'm not misunderstood .. [ accused of judging ] these are observations of mine .. from those that were misguided or deceived by those that were only "advising" to sell their product!
 

Yvonne G

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WELLLL... we've heard everything from irrational emotional outbursts and attacks of others to totally technical scientific analysis .. but where is the actual explanation of how these devices are applied that produce these claimed horrific results???

How is it that some have years of no ill effects and others have almost immediate [ claimed ] blindness etc.?

Can we please get detailed set-ups??? - NOT ".. because I went by the instructions and it blinded my tortoises!!!!." - that's not a legitimate explanation.. that's a claimed reaction. I'm asking for the "action" that creates the "reaction" PLEASE???

I am under the impression that this topic/thread is to find out what we know about
"coiled compact florescent bulbs".
We've heard the "what" and the "why" and the "when"! Can we hear the specific "how" ( pics would be helpful ) --- it has been requested a number of times!

Most of the eye problems were discussed at the time they happened, and changes were made. The most important thing at the time was getting the baby's eyes soothed and the problem resolved. Taking pictures of the offending product was the furthest thing from anyone's mind. I believe Maggie did say in her post how far she had the vertical light hanging from the substrate. I doubt you're going to get an answer to your request.
 

Tom

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WELLLL... we've heard everything from irrational emotional outbursts and attacks of others to totally technical scientific analysis .. but where is the actual explanation of how these devices are applied that produce these claimed horrific results???

How is it that some have years of no ill effects and others have almost immediate [ claimed ] blindness etc.?

Can we please get detailed set-ups??? - NOT ".. because I went by the instructions and it blinded my tortoises!!!!." - that's not a legitimate explanation.. that's a claimed reaction. I'm asking for the "action" that creates the "reaction" PLEASE???

I am under the impression that this topic/thread is to find out what we know about
"coiled compact florescent bulbs".
We've heard the "what" and the "why" and the "when"! Can we hear the specific "how" ( pics would be helpful ) --- it has been requested a number of times!

We see these cases at least once a month here Terry. You should be able to go back and find at least 50 over the last few years. Then you can try to reach each of those people and get your specific questions answered.
 

mike taylor

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I'll you have to do is search ( eye problem ) and a lot of them pop up . Mr. Turtleterry .
 

Redfoot NERD

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What's all this animosity about anyway? I asked for a description of how these bulbs were utilized... and we're seeing these remarks???? How are these remarks beneficial to this thread?

Why is there not a possibility of set-up having anything to do with the issue. Why are you guys majoring on the minor ( pics would be helpful ) ?

We see these cases at least once a month here Terry. You should be able to go back and find at least 50 over the last few years. Then you can try to reach each of those people and get your specific questions answered.

Not concerned about them now Tom... trying to establish ( on this tread ) if habitat set-up had an affect on those participating in this thread now.

Yvonne stated changes were made.. what's different now from what was done then?

Or how about [ other than bulbs being used ] .. what does the arrangement for basking tortoises look like now? I'm not asking for personal info because I don't keep them myself.

It makes no difference to me either way.....
 

DutchieAmanda

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And the redfoot tortoises.. ( as seldom as they are under the coil.. because they get their D3 from their diet.. so they have no need to bask ).. sleep the same way. I have again explained my set-up.

I have given arguments here and in a different topic that I don't believe redfoots get (all) their vit D from their diet. They can also absorb UV b rays when not directly in the sun or basking light, especially in tropical climates. Yours are kept outside I believe but would you consider to stop promoting that redfoots kept inside don't need UVB until you have enough valid arguments for this?

Thanks.
 

Redfoot NERD

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I have given arguments here and in a different topic that I don't believe redfoots get (all) their vit D from their diet. They can also absorb UV b rays when not directly in the sun or basking light, especially in tropical climates. Yours are kept outside I believe but would you consider to stop promoting that redfoots kept inside don't need UVB until you have enough valid arguments for this?

Thanks.

Amanda mine are not kept outside all year 'round. I brought them into the building in October and will be until outside again usually in April sometime. My prescribed care regime has worked since 2005 and has produced F2 hatchlings.. ( 1998 hatchlings produced in 2005 and among those started producing in 2012.. maybe that's F3? ) So as they always say in my circle of associates.. we don't "argue" among ourselves and you know you're doing something right when they make babies... like this one -

 

sibi

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Amanda mine are not kept outside all year 'round. I brought them into the building in October and will be until outside again usually in April sometime. My prescribed care regime has worked since 2005 and has produced F2 hatchlings.. ( 1998 hatchlings produced in 2005 and among those started producing in 2012.. maybe that's F3? ) So as they always say in my circle of associates.. we don't "argue" among ourselves and you know you're doing something right when they make babies... like this one -


This pic of a baby RF is about the best post you're given here yet. Thanks for the distraction:p
 

Markw84

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Terry, I must say ALL the research I have seen shows that herbivorous and semi herbivorous reptiles cannot get anywhere close to enough D3 in a natural diet.

In looking at this I consider:

Tortoises can continue to metabolize calcium to diminishing degrees, perhaps 3-4 weeks after their last exposure to UVB. (earlier post in this thread)
I also keep in mind that the Mazuri we all seem to use and love does contain calcium and proper amounts of D3 - That's why I like it so much!! That's why I also rarely add calcium with D3 on top of food offered as I probably use more Mazuri in the diet than many seem to. With the Mazuri, I'm not worried about overdose as it is formulated in that very small ratio with that in mind. But that, combined with what UVB I now provide with UVB lights, seems a great safety net. Won't overdose with the Mazuri, and any more they need can be synthesized naturally, but that can't be overproduced if not needed due to the biological limiting processes already discussed.

I don't know if this is good or bad, but I was happy with the results I can directly talk about-- I raised a over 100 perfectly healthy sulcatas I hatched (despite slight pyramiding!) back 10 - 20 years ago without any artificial UVB light keeping the hatchlings and yearlings indoors probably mid Oct - mid March. But I did use as a part of their diet Mazuri, and back then, Repti Cal pellets to ensure calcium and D3 availability. Never added any other supplements.
 

Redfoot NERD

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Thank you Mark.. does ALL their research [ NOT for OMNIVORES? ] include what you and I did? Their research was based on "UNNATURAL" conditions! [ trying to add humor --- mine/ours didn't read those articles? ] Of course in the wild they get what they need from natural sunlight sources other than diet! PLUS how many deep forest / jungle.. even African swamp ( Kinixys erosa ) tortoises rely heavily on their diet?

Anyone who looks at my caresheet will see that a weekly addition to their diet included a high protein dry catfood offered then by Purina - Weight Managment [ compare those ingredients to Mazuri which is formulated for herbivores ]. Apparently it's not available anymore.. just looked. It contained something like 46% animal protein.. considerable calcium and D3 also. Other than the no D3 calcium to supplement the loss from creating eggs - was the only additive I offered also. They also created 100's of healthy hatchlings.. as shown.

It must be understood that D3 is stored and can be very toxic because of that. ( always walking the line aren't we ? )

Have no idea how all of this lighting you speak of impacts herbivorous .. since 90% of my experience is with omnivores.
 

Markw84

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Thank you Mark.. does ALL their research [ NOT for OMNIVORES? ] include what you and I did? Their research was based on "UNNATURAL" conditions! [ trying to add humor --- .
Terry. Sorry I was confusing in my reply. I simply meant to address the possible confusion I and others could have that you were implying that those 'omnivore' tortoises can get all the D3 they need from a more 'natural' diet. Obviously we can supplement. But we would need provide some type fatty food in their diet to provide D3. Only fatty food contains D3. Some point to mushrooms - but they contain D2 not D3. So we have 3 choices I guess:
-Ensure they get some UVB
-Add a dietary supplement with D3 in it
-Add fatty foods to their diet (Which I know is not an option with Leopards, Sulcata, Stars - I'll let other debate the rest.)
 

Redfoot NERD

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Thanks again Mark ---- as I recall.. before this thread started "debating and arguing" over ????? We were asked about what we know about "coil" bulbs.
Of course the protein etc. is derived from plant matter in the Mazuri.. which WOULD be insufficient for Omnivores. etc. The pellets I provided were chicken/turkey for carnivores which was/is acceptable to redfoots, etc. But again that is only related to providing the few parameters needed to maintain these creatures.

That being said.. my application of lighting needs [ coil or otherwise ] is quite different than yours and others - I too will let others debate that !
 

ZEROPILOT

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I started this thread to decide what I myself should say to a new member who has both a tortoise with eye issues and/or a coiled CFL.
I had no first hand experience but had encountered a few dozen cases connecting the two.
There are several members who I respect and generally agree with that had a different take on these lights.
I thought that I (We?) needed more information in order to be helpful in the future.
Not much has been accomplished.
I will request this post be closed.
 

SteveW

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Bummer. I'm late to this party but have enjoyed catching up. Whether or not Mr Nerd has anything productive to add, Marks comments, and others are insightful, are they not?
 
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