Oversoaking a tortoise

[franz_see]

Good day,

One of the recommendations I hear about hatchling is daily soaking in warm water for about 10-30minutes as this prevents dehydration.

But is it possible to over do it?

For example, I have two sulcata hatchlings and we soak them every morning (1st soak).

Then, we let them graze in the yard for 2-3hrs every morning. They're pretty active outside but humidity outdoors can go as low as 20%. With that, when we bring them back, we soak them again (2nd soak of the day) first before putting them back in their enclosure (which has humidity between 60-80%, we're still trying to fix their enclosure to reach 80-100% humidity).

Lastly, they do another 2-3hrs grazing just before dusk (i.e. Sun is not to hot). Then before bringing them back in, another soak (3rd soak of the day).

Is this actually ok or am I overdoing it already?

Thanks,
Franz

 

[Tom]

I don't think that is necessary, but it won't hurt anything either.

 

[franz_see]

I don't think that is necessary, but it won't hurt anything either.

Thanks @Tom . I heard that over soaking can force the tortoise to poop a lot. Is that bad?

 

[dmmj]

While, Imagine it is possible, would say not likely to happen. they do poop a little more, but they can only produce poop, if there is poop to get rid of. But to answer, I don't think you are over doing it.

 

[franz_see]

While, Imagine it is possible, would say not likely to happen. they do poop a little more, but they can only produce poop, if there is poop to get rid of. But to answer, I don't think you are over doing it.

They do have something to poop - what they just grazed on. Or is that too soon to be expelled?

Thanks

 

[dmmj]

To soon, it takes about 2 weeks to work through their gut.

 

[Tom]

They do have something to poop - what they just grazed on. Or is that too soon to be expelled?

Thanks

We were just having this discussion on another thread the other day. I have personally seen things take 6-7 weeks to get through a 12" sulcata. My vet said gut transit time can be "a few days to a few weeks, depending on many factors".

If "over" soaking caused them to poop too much and miss out on needed nutrition, then you would expect tortoises that are soaked daily, or 2-3 times a day to be thin, sickly, weak, growing very slowly if at all, lethargic, etc... But in reality what we see is the opposite. They thrive, grow, and demonstrate good health in every way.

 

[franz_see]

To soon, it takes about 2 weeks to work through their gut.

We were just having this discussion on another thread the other day. I have personally seen things take 6-7 weeks to get through a 12" sulcata. My vet said gut transit time can be "a few days to a few weeks, depending on many factors".

If "over" soaking caused them to poop too much and miss out on needed nutrition, then you would expect tortoises that are soaked daily, or 2-3 times a day to be thin, sickly, weak, growing very slowly if at all, lethargic, etc... But in reality what we see is the opposite. They thrive, grow, and demonstrate good health in every way.

Thanks @dmmj and @Tom

I've seen my hatchlings accidentally eat hair and pass it a day or two later.

But my hatchlings are not sickly, strong and very active (especially when they're in the yard). However, they don't seem to grow as fast as the other hatchlings I've seen over the internet. I know every tortoise grow with different rates, but it does make me think if my over soaking is causing their growth to slow down.

But they are pretty active and they seem to be pretty heathy as well

 

[Tom]

Do yours live as a pair? That will slow them down.
Did they have a dry start? That will slow them down.
Do they spend hours a day outside on warm sunny days? That will slow them down a lot. I went back and read the first post in this thread. 4-6 hours of outside time for these guys. That is most likely the reason yours are growing slower than others you are comparing to on the internet. Try doing one hour of outside time a day 5-6 days a week and leave them inside the rest of the time and watch the growth rate accelerate. Assuming you have a good indoor enclosure with the right parameters.

Whatever the reason yours are growing slower, its not from soaking. I know people who soak them for hours a day, and theirs grow at "normal" rates.

 

[franz_see]

Do yours live as a pair? That will slow them down.
Did they have a dry start? That will slow them down.
Do they spend hours a day outside on warm sunny days? That will slow them down a lot. I went back and read the first post in this thread. 4-6 hours of outside time for these guys. That is most likely the reason yours are growing slower than others you are comparing to on the internet. Try doing one hour of outside time a day 5-6 days a week and leave them inside the rest of the time and watch the growth rate accelerate. Assuming you have a good indoor enclosure with the right parameters.

Great info. Thanks!

Re Do they live in pairs :
No, they live in separate enclosures.

Re do they have a dry start:
Their enclosure will be at 60% humidity in the morning. But we start off their day with a warm bath (separate tubs as well) before we set them off to graze.

Re hours a day on warm sunny days:
Yes. Temp outside can go from 30-40c. Indoors, it's about 30c. But we do let them out in the morning (sometime between 7-10am) before the sun gets really hot, and between 2-5pm (once the hot afternoon has passed). If we do it an hour a day, what would be the ideal conditions for that 1 hour? Also, I'm curious, why would that slow down their growth a lot?

Thanks @Tom !

 

[Tom]

Great info. Thanks!

Re Do they live in pairs :
No, they live in separate enclosures.

Re do they have a dry start:
Their enclosure will be at 60% humidity in the morning. But we start off their day with a warm bath (separate tubs as well) before we set them off to graze.

Re hours a day on warm sunny days:
Yes. Temp outside can go from 30-40c. Indoors, it's about 30c. But we do let them out in the morning (sometime between 7-10am) before the sun gets really hot, and between 2-5pm (once the hot afternoon has passed). If we do it an hour a day, what would be the ideal conditions for that 1 hour? Also, I'm curious, why would that slow down their growth a lot?

Thanks @Tom !

When I asked about how they were started I meant how were they raised and cared for during their first few days and weeks after hatching. Most breeders keep them on dry substrate and don't soak enough.

I don't know why they grow slower when kept outdoors all day, but they do. I've repeated this with several experiments with clutchmates of different species. Something about the stability and consistency of the great INDOORS seems to really agree with babies. Older ones are fine outside all day, but smaller ones do better inside. A lot better. Again, assuming your indoor set up is a good one.

 

[ascott]

Great info. Thanks!

Re Do they live in pairs :
No, they live in separate enclosures.

Re do they have a dry start:
Their enclosure will be at 60% humidity in the morning. But we start off their day with a warm bath (separate tubs as well) before we set them off to graze.

Re hours a day on warm sunny days:
Yes. Temp outside can go from 30-40c. Indoors, it's about 30c. But we do let them out in the morning (sometime between 7-10am) before the sun gets really hot, and between 2-5pm (once the hot afternoon has passed). If we do it an hour a day, what would be the ideal conditions for that 1 hour? Also, I'm curious, why would that slow down their growth a lot?

Thanks @Tom !

There is nothing wrong with slow steady growth...nothing wrong....also, a couple soaks a day should suffice and should not be too much....

 

[franz_see]

When I asked about how they were started I meant how were they raised and cared for during their first few days and weeks after hatching. Most breeders keep them on dry substrate and don't soak enough.

I don't know why they grow slower when kept outdoors all day, but they do. I've repeated this with several experiments with clutchmates of different species. Something about the stability and consistency of the great INDOORS seems to really agree with babies. Older ones are fine outside all day, but smaller ones do better inside. A lot better. Again, assuming your indoor set up is a good one.

Thanks @Tom!
Re dry start : yes. I think they had a dry start.

Re indoors:
That's actually what I am leaning towards nowadays. Seems like most fast growing torts that I see are fed in their indoor enclosures. I think grazing as babies takes too much effort. That is, it's more effort for hatchlings to graze than adults that they're burning more than they're getting (or they're burning a lot).

Thanks. I'll try to do a two week experiment of keeping them indoor most of the time (and just have them 1hr yard time). I'm planning to do it for 2 weeks because they hardly eat indoors. The first week is to get them accustomed eating indoors, while the 2nd week to see if it would really change anything. Thanks!

 

[franz_see]

There is nothing wrong with slow steady growth...nothing wrong....also, a couple soaks a day should suffice and should not be too much....

Correct nothing wrong with slow steady growth im just wondering though because a 100g 7mo old sulcata no longer feels like 'slow and steady'. It just feels like slow.

 

[Tom]

Correct nothing wrong with slow steady growth im just wondering though because a 100g 7mo old sulcata no longer feels like 'slow and steady'. It just feels like slow.

I think you are right. By 7 months mine are 400-500 grams. My mostly outdoor raised ones were 200-250 at 6 months.

 

[franz_see]

I think you are right. By 7 months mine are 400-500 grams. My mostly outdoor raised ones were 200-250 at 6 months.

Thanks @Tom. Looks like even by mostly outdoor standards, my sullies are really small

I will try to switch to the mainly indoor setup.

Thanks!

 

[ascott]

Correct nothing wrong with slow steady growth im just wondering though because a 100g 7mo old sulcata no longer feels like 'slow and steady'. It just feels like slow.

Apology....unless you know the "exact" line that your tort stemmed from...then there is no way to know the correct growth rate....only "guidelines". If you are hitting all required boxes and your tort is thriving (within its own growth rate)...then I do not see what the worry is...unless of course you obtained this species with the ultimate gigantic size of 200+ pound animal (which is unique these days)....there is a member here that actually has the old style/old day gigantinormous tortoise of this species....you may want to inquire of him what he suggests.....anyways, have a great night....

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sulcata-250-lb-male-specimens.36412/

here go...I remembered the member as I was going to post the above.....now, these are beautiful examples of the species....enjoy..but keep in mind, this is a line (group) that is not mainstream....

 

[Zeko]

I soak my tortoise twice a day, 30 mins per time. Enclosure is 90% humidity.

Here are the growth rates proving that soaking does not cause harm:

Sulcata Weights:

Oct 20 2014 - 54 Grams
Nov 03 2014 - 66 Grams
Nov 12 2014 - 76 grams
Nov 17 2014 - 90 grams
Nov 24 2014 - 97 grams
Dec 1 2014 - 103 grams
Dec 4 2014 - 115 grams
Dec 8 2014 - 119 grams

 

[Tom]

Apology....unless you know the "exact" line that your tort stemmed from...then there is no way to know the correct growth rate....only "guidelines". If you are hitting all required boxes and your tort is thriving (within its own growth rate)...then I do not see what the worry is...unless of course you obtained this species with the ultimate gigantic size of 200+ pound animal (which is unique these days)....there is a member here that actually has the old style/old day gigantinormous tortoise of this species....you may want to inquire of him what he suggests.....anyways, have a great night....

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sulcata-250-lb-male-specimens.36412/

here go...I remembered the member as I was going to post the above.....now, these are beautiful examples of the species....enjoy..but keep in mind, this is a line (group) that is not mainstream....

Again with dispensing advice about something you know absolutely nothing about because you've never raised a single sulcata of any type in any way.

Sudans don't grow any faster than any other type of sulcata even though they end up larger in the end. So whether his sulcata is a sudan or not, matters for nothing. 100 grams at 7 months is small. Period. Means something somewhere is not right. Most likely it was an overly dry start in this case.

And knowing the lineage of your sulcata tortoises parents is not one of the myriad factors that determine growth rates.

Finally, Brad has apparently left the country and has not participated on this forum for a long time.

 

[leigti]

It is too bad that that person no longer participates in the forum. Those tortoises are pretty cool. I'm relatively new around here but I don't remember seen ones like that.