OK, let's all put our thinking caps on...

[Yvonne G]

We hear this story three or four times a day here on the Forum...I bought (adopted, was given) my tortoise and he ate real well the first day, wandered around the habitat, explored, and now he just stays hidden all the time.

So what makes a new tortoise stay hidden after eating and acting normally the first day? If he's just getting used to the new environment, why does he eat the first day?

Let's throw some ideas out there and see if we can figure this one out.

 

[Durhamstyle]

I would say it's survival mode. New environment would make any healthy creature a little cautious.
Possibly not noticing the environment had changed on initial arrival ( humidity, temps or smells are different) or if shipped, they were just super hungry now they need time to digest or are jet lagged haha

 

[Turtlepete]

My guess would be the lack of a very interesting environment, in some cases. The thing is, they explored the first day…So they're done. They've learned the lay-out and the setup of their enclosure, and if there is nothing new or interesting, no plants to graze/brwose on, etc.., then what reason do they have not to just sit around in their hides, where they are comfortable?

Thats just my guess, because I can't say I've personally seen this. Either they eat great and are outgoing the first day and every day after, or they don't eat and stay hidden for the first few weeks and are difficult to get settled in.

 

[lisa127]

I think when a turtle or tortoise is wandering around his habitat and a new keeper sees that as active/happy that's not necessarily so. A tort that obsessively wanders the enclosure and is climbing all over the place is not active, it is stressed.

I don't have torts as you know, I have box turtles. They are very active. By active I mean they calmly go about their day. They come out in the morning and bask. Soak in their water dish, chew on cuttlebone. Look for worms. All the while stopping occasionally and just hanging out and looking around. All of this is done "calmly". If they were moving about their enclosure non stop I would call that stress. So maybe what a new person sees as active/happy is not. Being a newbie, they just don't realize that.

And oftentimes, when a person new to torts/turtles or herps in general says they hide all day - what do they mean by that? If they mean hiding and hasn't come out to bask or eat in a week then yes that's a problem. If they mean hide all day like a reptile is supposed to do, that's not a problem. So when a "newbie" says hide all day you need to find out if that is an exaggeration and they are not just saying that because they are used to other types of pets.

I don't know if I'm making sense here. Normal behavior might seem like an issue to a newbie because they just don't know.

As for eating the first day and not later, I just don't know. Honestly, I've never had that happen. If a herp came to my house and ate the very first day they have always continued to do so.

 

[jeffjeff]

could it be they are actually looking for the safest place to hide? and eat because they don't know how long they will be hidden away? mine just hid away for the first week and only came out to bask.

 

[T33's Torts]

Yvonne, sorry, but my thinking cap is off on weekends.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I really like what Lisa said

I think the enclosure has to be a contributing factor because I personally haven't encountered this issue. Now, I've only dealt with about 30 tortoises coming through my care, but all of them were either leopards housed in humid chambers or Russians/CDTs that were set up outside. They ate fine, acted fine and didn't go off food/into excessive hiding at all.

The 1 feeding issue I had was with an albino RES....but that's not really the same circumstances.

My thoughts as to why they eat great the first day: After being kept in "most likely" less than ideal conditions (cramped, cool) they are probably hungry by the time they are in a new, warmer set up.

:shy: those are my thoughts

 

[WillTort2]

One possible factor would be the travel stress, most torts relieve themselves while trapped in a small enclosure subject to the motion of a truck or car. When arriving at the new enclosure, it's warm has one of a torts favorite foods and this combined with the empty stomach cause the tort to make food it's first priority.

After taking care of the initial survival feeding, the tort then looks around to see what safe spots he can hide.

 

[Tom]

I think when a turtle or tortoise is wandering around his habitat and a new keeper sees that as active/happy that's not necessarily so. A tort that obsessively wanders the enclosure and is climbing all over the place is not active, it is stressed.

This is my best guess too. I also share Heather's experience. I've never had this happen. I mostly see this with WC pet store tortoises. I think when they are initially dropped in the first day, they are stressed, out of their element and wandering around trying to get their bearings or find "home". Once they realize they can't get "home" and find a suitable hiding place, they just want to stay hidden and avoid predation or territorial squabbles in this foreign unknown area. Eventually the new area becomes "home", they realize they are alone and the giant hairless apes are not going to eat them, and further, every time the giant hairless apes reach into the enclosure tasty food appears, they begin to let down their guard and settle down a bit.

 

[Madkins007]

My two cents worth...

In a new situation, most tortoises seem to try to 'map out' the situation- where are the hides, the warm areas, etc? Most of them have also just spent some time in a tight or crowded situation. The eating may well be a curiosity thing as well, as in 'what is that stuff?'.

Hiding is normal for a wild tortoise. Most studies show that most tortoises spend something like 70% of their time in hiding- digesting, sleeping, resting. I think we spend way too little time planning for this in most of our enclosures and designs. I also think a new tortoise will hide to manage the stress they have been through.

HOWEVER... as has been mentioned- relentlessly pacing is a bad sign, and hiding without ever coming out is also a bad sign. To me- wander and hide- normal, at least for a few days to about a week. Keeps wandering or stays hidden, something needs looked at.

 

[terryo]

I think most would be stressed coming into a new environment. Everything is different...smells, temp. humidity....everything. I also think that each tortoise or turtle have different personalities. Someone sent me a little Gulf Box turtle and he went right to the food dish and ate then dug into the moss and stayed there, but each day I would mist the vivarium and he eventually came out to eat. We kind of got into our own routine and now as soon as I mist he comes right out. I don't think anyone has any idea what they feel. Do they feel fear, anxiety, stress? I think they do and they just have different ways of showing it. I really don't think we will ever find out what they are thinking and why they do the things they do.

 

[terryo]

I think when a turtle or tortoise is wandering around his habitat and a new keeper sees that as active/happy that's not necessarily so. A tort that obsessively wanders the enclosure and is climbing all over the place is not active, it is stressed.

I don't have torts as you know, I have box turtles. They are very active. By active I mean they calmly go about their day. They come out in the morning and bask. Soak in their water dish, chew on cuttlebone. Look for worms. All the while stopping occasionally and just hanging out and looking around. All of this is done "calmly". If they were moving about their enclosure non stop I would call that stress. So maybe what a new person sees as active/happy is not. Being a newbie, they just don't realize that.

And oftentimes, when a person new to torts/turtles or herps in general says they hide all day - what do they mean by that? If they mean hiding and hasn't come out to bask or eat in a week then yes that's a problem. If they mean hide all day like a reptile is supposed to do, that's not a problem. So when a "newbie" says hide all day you need to find out if that is an exaggeration and they are not just saying that because they are used to other types of pets.

I don't know if I'm making sense here. Normal behavior might seem like an issue to a newbie because they just don't know.

As for eating the first day and not later, I just don't know. Honestly, I've never had that happen. If a herp came to my house and ate the very first day they have always continued to do so.

Very well said. I see my Box turtles going about their day exactly like you described.

 

[TurtleTab]

My experience is mainly with box turtles too. I am always anxious to see if new turtles eat. If they eat then they will be alright eventually. So first day eating is a good sign. I've had many that refused to eat because they were so focused on escaping or not eating because they were too scared to leave their shell. Both very sad situations that people put the turtles and me in the middle of. (People randomly give me turtles they find or if someone mentions finding a turtle and keeping it, I beg for it because at least I can treat it better than they would-I can't return it because I'm not the one taking them). Once they eat, I sigh with relief and then focus on meeting it's safety needs. Does it have plenty of hides? The last thing a new turtle wants is to be bothered. So let it hide. Give it a variety of foods( turtles will hold out for favorite foods), give it plenty of hiding spots, and time to relax and calm down. If there is silence and stillness....the turtle/tortoise can begin to "trust" it's environment and eventually, you. If after a week it's not moving around, soak it in water, offer more foods, place it back in its hide. There's nothing more you can do but patiently wait in my opinion.

 

[TurtleTab]

As for feeling...I do believe we can read them. I've had turtles for 28 years now. I believe I know what they are thinking. They are very visual. They are loners. They want to be left alone to roam and do as they please...well...box turtles that is. I'm new to tortoises. I have a russian female that seems to want the same. They do a lot of analyzing. They stare at walls to judge if they can climb them. They stare at you to see what u plan on doing...feed them,give them water, eat them or just bother them? They know when a hill/cliff/drop off is too far. They know when water us too deep. They know every single pebble in their pen because they are very visual. They need to have a good visual memory to roam and come back to good areas. So when you change their set up, they know it. They have an internal clock...sunrise awake, sunset sleep. Mine have certain bedrooms they prefer. The sun tell them direction and time of day. Rain means food, mating, water and floods to them. They are way smarter than we give them credit for. I've analyzed them for almost my entire life and seem to connect more with them than people.

 

[TurtleTab]

I've also noticed turtles learning from other turtles. They watch others. Example- my dad tossed them a piece of fried chicken (I know!!! I know!!! Very bad choice but my dad did it and I wanted to see what would come of it)...they both sniffed but Bedelia walked away quickly. She knew this food was not natural and she's never had it before. Allen waited and kept sniffing. Finally, I took the breading off and shredded just the meat. As soon as I did that, Allen took a bite. Bedelia watched him. She slowly walked over, watched him some more. Sniffed. Finally began eating it. They've watched others climb too and would begin climbing in that spot even if they aren't normally climbers.

 

[Alaskamike]

The idea that one tortoise can learn observing another is interesting given they're not raised by parents , nor are they social. They tend to segregate and live by themselves.
I've no doubt they can learn from observation though.
Much of their behavior is governed by instinct for survival ; food - water - temp / humidity control , sex, and safety

Social needs , emotions , affection, I'm not so sure about.
However , IAM convinced that all animals , tortoises included an suffer from a kind of depression. With tortoises I believe it to be brought on by an in fixable bad situation
Wrong temps - improper food - no water - too small a space - lack of hides- too much handling ( you should watch children for this). I've seen torts in pet stores that were in fish tanks way too long that just stopped moving altogether. It's like they just give up. Sad.

 

[TurtleTab]

I agree. If a tortoise/turtle observes another turtle's technique for survival...it may adopt the new technique, therefore "learning". Turtles also learn to trust humans or not to trust humans based on whether they are given proper care. I have a russian who still doesn't trust me. Had her for a month. I barely handle her because I understand she was neglected. Yesterday, I allowed her to pick her own enclosure site since she was not happy with mine. She chose a corner of my yard away from everyone, in the shade, by the tree branches that hang in my yard. She allows goes to this area when she gets out...so I built around her. Hopefully she likes this spot better.

 

[tglazie]

Tom is right. I have a lot of experience fostering wild caught Russians, Hermanns, and Greeks through the South Texas Herp Society, and they all behave this way. I get them, they initially eat, they frantically run about the enclosure, then spend the next few days to weeks hiding. The healthy ones usually eat when food is offered, but they return to hiding once fed. This is hardly surprising, given how stressful their situation has been. When I contrast this to my permanent residents, my marginated tortoises, all of whom I acquired as captive bred hatchlings and yearlings, the behavior is completely different. New baby torts are always inquisitive about the new environment, but calm, not frantic. They calmly and confidently explore their environment, and they regularly graze on the plants made available to them in the enclosure. I've never once seen this in a wild caught foster animal. And they always take an extremely long time to get back into shape. I had one Hermanns male a few years back that I've since adopted to a friend. I was pretty sure Hermes was going to die. His eyes were swollen shut, he was light as an empty red eared slider shell, and he didn't eat for the first three days. After a trip to the vet's office, some panacur and some time spent in a ten by ten planted outdoor run, he gradually started coming back from the brink. Despite the gains he made over the summer, I was still uncertain as to whether he would pull through the winter time. To see him now, you wouldn't believe he's the same tortoise. He has fresh growth along his marginal scutes, is heavy, powerful, inquisitive, and grazes constantly when the temperature is to his liking.

This is why I have a problem with Petsmart and Petco. They're always selling these damned wild caught animals, animals that are the worst first tortoise for someone. Wild caughts require patience and constant supervision, as well as immediate veterinary attention. And even with all of these things, many won't survive their first month. And to make matters worse, these stores offer lethal advice. Sorry to get off topic, but that's what I think.

T.G.

 

[Nicoli]

Might be hawks,rats,phobia,or wrong food.

 

[vic1711]

I've had torts for about 30 years. I only see the "mad pacing" in new torts... Acclimating. Sometimes babies (under 2 years) madly race around like puppies and kittens. I never see my adults do that unless i have a female looking for just the right spot to lay an egg. I. Have one female pancake who looks for about 2 weeks and digs everywhere. Always has. Then she just dumps it wherever till next time. Lol. Otherwise i think they all randomly wander, calmly, grazing. And they pick "dens". My Egyptians are just under a year old... Very schedule oriented and avoid each other well. Only the pancakes seem to actually benefit from other pancakes. My big female leopard prefers to hang around people and wander the house. I do believe they get bored.