Normal growth? Help me :(

Jodie

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I use my temp gun outside and take regular reading of all the hides and boxes. You would be surprised how much cooler some spots are than others. If you don't have a temp gun, you can get them affordably at Home Depot or Lowe's.
 

Tom

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Notes:

1. As previously noted, he/she lives outside 24/7 with everything set up properly.
2. It's getting to about 100-110F in the Southern California inland region; sometimes I fee like "there's now way this tortoise can tolerate this", but then I think about its original environment in central Africa and rationalize it. The fact that they're cold-blooded also help but my God, it's hot!
3. Use of basking light is limited to only 1 hour in the morning to "wake him/her" up, but the rest comes from direct sunlight in California
4. Increasing normal weight. Looks to be about 3000g fairly soon. Tort turns two years old in late August.
5. In the later pictures, I noticed some flaky, white, perhaps dry portions of his shell...not sure if's normal or as a result of the heat if he's just scratching himself when he goes in his "room" within the enclosure or when he's outside going under various backyard sheds.

Any thoughts, comments, concerns? Thank

First off he looks great.

1. He is a good size for living outside full time now.
2. "Cold-Blooded" only means that his temp is the same as the ambient around him unless he uses a heat source like the sun or a heat lamp. It does not keep them cooler. The above ground temperature in Africa where they come from has nothing to do with anything. They are underground over there 95-98% of the time. Your tortoise CANNOT tolerate 110 degree heat without someplace cool to retreat to. This can be accomplished many ways, but underground is the best way. Here are some examples:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/daisys-new-enclosure.28662/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/semi-underground-russian-box.98590/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sulcata-burrows.50846/
You need to know what the temperature under that shed is. If its not cool enough, you will need to make other arrangements.
3. No need for the basking light this time of year. Really at his size and in your area, you don't need it at all anymore.
4. That is good weight.
5. That rough growth around the sides and the white flaky-ness is the result of something here in our Southern CA environment. I don't see that on AZ, FL or TX tortoises. I see it on all the CA tortoises, including my own. I hate it, but don't know how to fix it. I think it is just too dry here.
 

thegame2388

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I use my temp gun outside and take regular reading of all the hides and boxes. You would be surprised how much cooler some spots are than others. If you don't have a temp gun, you can get them affordably at Home Depot or Lowe's.

Can't really gauge the difference between under wood piece vs. outside today since it's overcast and about 93F outside. Under the little plywood he hides under, it's about 74F....so if you did the math, that's a 20% reduction. When it's 110F outside, it should be 88F under the plywood? Who knows...I'll check when it's sunny tomorrow.
 

thegame2388

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First off he looks great.

1. He is a good size for living outside full time now.
2. "Cold-Blooded" only means that his temp is the same as the ambient around him unless he uses a heat source like the sun or a heat lamp. It does not keep them cooler. The above ground temperature in Africa where they come from has nothing to do with anything. They are underground over there 95-98% of the time. Your tortoise CANNOT tolerate 110 degree heat without someplace cool to retreat to. This can be accomplished many ways, but underground is the best way. Here are some examples:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/daisys-new-enclosure.28662/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/semi-underground-russian-box.98590/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sulcata-burrows.50846/
You need to know what the temperature under that shed is. If its not cool enough, you will need to make other arrangements.
3. No need for the basking light this time of year. Really at his size and in your area, you don't need it at all anymore.
4. That is good weight.
5. That rough growth around the sides and the white flaky-ness is the result of something here in our Southern CA environment. I don't see that on AZ, FL or TX tortoises. I see it on all the CA tortoises, including my own. I hate it, but don't know how to fix it. I think it is just too dry here.

1. Thanks.
2. Right now, I'm not worried about being too cold...it's the opposite: being too hot. Not at night, but during the day when it peaks at around 105F in Riverside county. I do have three of these: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003MOD2HY/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20 where I can perhaps create some sort of "burrow" or kinda just put dirt around the inside of his night box (wouldn't really do anything, not enough to burrow under, it would just elevate the ground level). Nevertheless, when you say that they need cool spots to retreat to, assuming the normal outside temp is 110F, do you mean "cool" like 100F or 90F or something like 80F?
3. No basking light at all (even winter time?) or do you mean just during the summer?
4. Thanks again
5. Yeah no clue. Just figured it's scratches or something. Humidity is at near 80% during sleeping hours. No idea how to fix it either.
 

Tom

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1. Thanks.
2. Right now, I'm not worried about being too cold...it's the opposite: being too hot. Not at night, but during the day when it peaks at around 105F in Riverside county. I do have three of these: http://www.amazon.com/Kempf-Compressed-Growing-Potting-11-Pound/dp/B003MOD2HY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435784091&sr=8-1&keywords=coco coir where I can perhaps create some sort of "burrow" or kinda just put dirt around the inside of his night box (wouldn't really do anything, not enough to burrow under, it would just elevate the ground level). Nevertheless, when you say that they need cool spots to retreat to, assuming the normal outside temp is 110F, do you mean "cool" like 100F or 90F or something like 80F?
3. No basking light at all (even winter time?) or do you mean just during the summer?
4. Thanks again
5. Yeah no clue. Just figured it's scratches or something. Humidity is at near 80% during sleeping hours. No idea how to fix it either.

2. When I say somewhere cooler I mean a spot that is low 90's or lower. Underground works perfectly for this. We've been having the same weather as you and that russian box that I linked above stays no higher than 85ish on all these 100+ days. Something like that would be ideal for your sulcata.
3. No need for any basking light at all anymore. Living outside the sun is his basking light. During the occasional cold winter days he can stay in his warm box most of the day. I open my doors around 9am or even 10 am on those really cold mornings. They come out when they feel like it, find a sunny spot for basking, graze on the winter weeds, and then go back into their box when they feel like it. Been doing it this way for almost 15 years.
 

thegame2388

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2. When I say somewhere cooler I mean a spot that is low 90's or lower. Underground works perfectly for this. We've been having the same weather as you and that russian box that I linked above stays no higher than 85ish on all these 100+ days. Something like that would be ideal for your sulcata.
3. No need for any basking light at all anymore. Living outside the sun is his basking light. During the occasional cold winter days he can stay in his warm box most of the day. I open my doors around 9am or even 10 am on those really cold mornings. They come out when they feel like it, find a sunny spot for basking, graze on the winter weeds, and then go back into their box when they feel like it. Been doing it this way for almost 15 years.

I'll use the temp gun tomorrow hopefully when it's blazing hot and see where he can hide....creating something underground is pretty unrealistic at this point considering I live in a pretty big, yet very normal Southern California home and our backyard is very typical. I'll figure something out. There are TONS of spots for him to hide under so I'm not worried about that.

As for the light, I mainly used it as a wake-up mechanism for him to leave his room within the enclosure but I'll guess I'll take that out completely.
 

Tom

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Above ground hiding spots are all the above ground temperature, which is too hot.

Why is it unrealistic to dig a hole and put a wooden box with a lid in it? I dig holes in my southern CA yard all the time.

You can also start a hole where you want it to be, and let him dig his own burrow. Just cover it up with plywood from about October to June and make him use the heated night box during that time.
 

thegame2388

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Above ground hiding spots are all the above ground temperature, which is too hot.

Why is it unrealistic to dig a hole and put a wooden box with a lid in it? I dig holes in my southern CA yard all the time.

You can also start a hole where you want it to be, and let him dig his own burrow. Just cover it up with plywood from about October to June and make him use the heated night box during that time.

Because I can't dig a big enough hole that will accomodate a 8-9 inch tort. A hole is actually easy...the box is harder. Regardless, I'll check the temps through the summer hot months. We'll see. Riverside country rarely exceeds 105F.
 

Levi the Leopard

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When I lived in SoCal, as a renter, I couldn't dig a big hole either. But I knew how important it was for my 13" desert tortoise to have a underground/cooler (90°f or less) hiding spot.
So, I built a burrow into an above ground planter box! It worked wonderfully! Temps stayed in the 80°s even on the +100° days. In fact another forum member in AZ did the same thing for her Sulcata. She didn't want to burrow underground so she used mine as an example. Her adult Sulcata loved it and was finally able to keep cool.

Google raised planter boxes. Get an idea of what those are like.
Basically, I made a box with scrap plywood. No bottom, just 3 walls and a roof. The missing wall was the door way. I set this box directly on top of the ground. No digging. Then I built the planter box around this box. I used bricks and left the one side open where the door would be. I put some plastic over the wood roof so water wouldn't leak in and then had soil fill in on the sides of the box and a few inches on top too. I really hope this is making sense..lol.. I have a thread about it but I can't link to other threads while on my phone. You'd have to search for it.
From my porch it looked like a regular planter box. But from the side you could see an opening and it led to the 3ft deep burrow. The tortoise was always in there in hot weather. In my thread I even recorded temps and discussed it. You should check it out...
I'm thinking of doing the same thing here since it's been so hot lately.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/new-outdoor-cdt-burrow.90324/
There I figured it out for you.. Hope it helps
 

thegame2388

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When I lived in SoCal, as a renter, I couldn't dig a big hole either. But I knew how important it was for my 13" desert tortoise to have a underground/cooler (90°f or less) hiding spot.
So, I built a burrow into an above ground planter box! It worked wonderfully! Temps stayed in the 80°s even on the +100° days. In fact another forum member in AZ did the same thing for her Sulcata. She didn't want to burrow underground so she used mine as an example. Her adult Sulcata loved it and was finally able to keep cool.

Google raised planter boxes. Get an idea of what those are like.
Basically, I made a box with scrap plywood. No bottom, just 3 walls and a roof. The missing wall was the door way. I set this box directly on top of the ground. No digging. Then I built the planter box around this box. I used bricks and left the one side open where the door would be. I put some plastic over the wood roof so water wouldn't leak in and then had soil fill in on the sides of the box and a few inches on top too. I really hope this is making sense..lol.. I have a thread about it but I can't link to other threads while on my phone. You'd have to search for it.
From my porch it looked like a regular planter box. But from the side you could see an opening and it led to the 3ft deep burrow. The tortoise was always in there in hot weather. In my thread I even recorded temps and discussed it. You should check it out...
I'm thinking of doing the same thing here since it's been so hot lately.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/new-outdoor-cdt-burrow.90324/
There I figured it out for you.. Hope it helps


Thanks for the advice. I'll def look into it. We have trees and shade all over the place. The sprinklers even turn on at 7PM but that's usually when it's not even that hot anyway. I'm more concerned about the 1-5PM time frame. Maybe I'm overthinking the heat issue. It's currently 90-95F outside according to three different websites, so heat isn't a problem for the sulcata. Regardless, this is the wood area shade hole I was talking about earlier:

2015_07_03_14_07_16.jpg


2015_07_03_14_07_19.jpg


2015_07_03_14_07_37.jpg
 

Tom

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Temperature looks good down there, but its not good for tortoises to be on concrete too much. Too abrasive. Can you put down some substrate, a rubber horse mat, indoor outdoor carpeting, or something to cushion him?
 

thegame2388

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Temperature looks good down there, but its not good for tortoises to be on concrete too much. Too abrasive. Can you put down some substrate, a rubber horse mat, indoor outdoor carpeting, or something to cushion him?

Yeah perhaps, tons of scrappy little stuff here and there. I'll look into it. The temperature in our area is about 90F so 86F in the cool spot isn't super cool regardless. I'd like to see how it holds up when it's 110F (super rare, but it happens).
 

thegame2388

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Temperature looks good down there, but its not good for tortoises to be on concrete too much. Too abrasive. Can you put down some substrate, a rubber horse mat, indoor outdoor carpeting, or something to cushion him?

Out of curiosity, what should the depth of the man-made burrow be? I was thinking something like 2 feet but obviously it wouldnt't be 2 feet straight down but rather at a diagonal slope/include so the tort can come in/out. So what's the magic number? 2 feet? 3 feet?
 

Tom

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Even one foot would be good if you put enough dirt and stuff over the top. The deeper you go the cooler it will be. The idea is to get away from the surface. I think two or three feet will work very well. That russian box I linked for you is only down about 17" and it works well.
 

thegame2388

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Even one foot would be good if you put enough dirt and stuff over the top. The deeper you go the cooler it will be. The idea is to get away from the surface. I think two or three feet will work very well. That russian box I linked for you is only down about 17" and it works well.

I'll try tomorrow. I'm trying to make it big enough so it'll last years, not months. Wouldn't want him to outgrow it. I plan on putting some storage box or bricks or something down there so it'll be a fixed size, not really upgradeable.
 

Tom

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Cool! Show us what you come up with. We all get inspiration from what everyone else does.
 

thegame2388

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Cool! Show us what you come up with. We all get inspiration from what everyone else does.

But it makes sense what I'm doing? I always thought if the tort doesn't burrow itself, then I'm probably keeping the temps right...I've never seen him burrow and he's nearly 2.

As far as size and depth of the burrow, I'd like to make it last so I think I'll create something 2ftx2ft and make it 1 ft deep with holes in the bottom of the box to drain out rain water.
 

Tom

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But it makes sense what I'm doing? I always thought if the tort doesn't burrow itself, then I'm probably keeping the temps right...I've never seen him burrow and he's nearly 2.

As far as size and depth of the burrow, I'd like to make it last so I think I'll create something 2ftx2ft and make it 1 ft deep with holes in the bottom of the box to drain out rain water.

Some of them never try to burrow. Most of them don't try to burrow until they are 12-14" long and even them some don't. I'll bet if you started a burrow for him the right way in the middle of the yard he'd take to it like a fish in water.

Your plan sounds good to me. Hopefully with the right entry and entrance cover, rainwater won't go down there. It doesn't in mine.
 

thegame2388

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Some of them never try to burrow. Most of them don't try to burrow until they are 12-14" long and even them some don't. I'll bet if you started a burrow for him the right way in the middle of the yard he'd take to it like a fish in water.

Your plan sounds good to me. Hopefully with the right entry and entrance cover, rainwater won't go down there. It doesn't in mine.

Are you sure I even need one? To escape heat? He already has that as the previous posts showed...and it's July so it's really not going to get any hotter than it already is. He usually hangs out all over the yard but mainly but that wood against the wall thing. The low gets to about 70F so it's fine in that sense.

If it's for the winter, he already has his perfect outdoor nightbox that heats to the correct temperature.

Who knows.
 

Tom

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Are you sure I even need one? To escape heat? He already has that as the previous posts showed...and it's July so it's really not going to get any hotter than it already is. He usually hangs out all over the yard but mainly but that wood against the wall thing. The low gets to about 70F so it's fine in that sense.

If it's for the winter, he already has his perfect outdoor nightbox that heats to the correct temperature.

Who knows.

Yes. He needs a place to cool off better than those old boards leaned up against the house on the concrete at surface level. You know we will have 100+ temps well into September. August tends to be our hottest month.

Get busy digging Mister Man!!!
 
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