New Sa Leopard !

BILBO-03

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Well I finally got my own tortoise!
Bilbo,ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1484707117.726463.jpg
I'm keeping him in a 48x12x13 glass tank with coco coir as the substrate. He has a hide some fake plants some rocks food and water bowl. I haven't seen him eat yet but I think it's just because he's needs to "settle" in.
His hot side is 100-105, cool side 75-85, and night time temperatures are 75-85 as well. My one question is his stomach has like a yellow thing I will include a pic I think it's just because he's young but I just want to make sure;)ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1484707392.764602.jpgoh and his humidity ranges from 65-95%. ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1484707456.328669.jpgImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1484707486.663154.jpgsorry for the mess behind his cage there's a lot of trash.
ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1484707552.427442.jpg
He also weighs 30 grams.
Just wanted to share I'm soooo excited to have a tortoise of my own !!!
 

cmacusa3

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Night temps are too cool, must get them up and keep them up above 80. He looks great. That spot is from the yolk sac, it will heal up.
 

wellington

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Congrats. Keep temp at 80 all over day and night except the basking spot. Try to get humidity to at least 80% all the time. Do the daily warm water soaks at least once a day, I do hatchlings twice a day. Also be sure your humidifier is a warm mist one, not cool mist.
 

BILBO-03

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I don't believe that's an SA, I could be wrong. Let's see what Tom says.
I'm pretty sure it's a pp they don't all have the two dots some have one or none he has the speckled skin. I have pictures of his parents his parents are 18+ inches.
 

cmacusa3

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I have a mixed that has speckled skin so I'm not sure that matters. Either way congrats and its a good looking tort.
 

diamondbp

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I'm pretty sure it's a pp they don't all have the two dots some have one or none he has the speckled skin. I have pictures of his parents his parents are 18+ inches.
You purchased from Ian I presume. He's breeders are huge (much bigger than any babcocki I've seen) but for some reason don't produce many typical looking PP. I have one I raised from him that's obviously different from my others from other trusted PP sources but his that I raised is still well within the range of what you would expect in a SA leopard. They are healthy babies, and I'm not by any means saying they aren't pure, but they have a slightly different appearance than most PP on the market. He's a great guy and I chat with him on occasion so I don't doubt his integrity. He might just have an atypical female for being SA. I also am raising up a different young female that I purchased as a hatchling from a known trusted PP source that happens to not have any double dotted vertebral scutes but is undoubtedly pure PP, so it does happen. Here is a link to my thread showing both the PP I got from Ian and the Spotless one I got from ATC as they have grown through the years.http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-official-p-pardalis-leopard-tort-page.113544/page-13

Congrats
 

cmacusa3

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You purchased from Ian I presume. He's breeders are huge (much bigger than any babcocki I've seen) but for some reason don't produce many typical looking PP. I have one I raised from him that's obviously different from my others from other trusted PP sources but his that I raised is still well within the range of what you would expect in a SA leopard. They are healthy babies, and I'm not by any means saying they aren't pure, but they have a slightly different appearance than most PP on the market. He's a great guy and I chat with him on occasion so I don't doubt his integrity. He might just have an atypical female for being SA. I also am raising up a different young female that I purchased as a hatchling from a known trusted PP source that happens to not have any double dotted vertebral scutes but is undoubtedly pure PP, so it does happen. Here is a link to my thread showing both the PP I got from Ian and the Spotless one I got from ATC as they have grown through the years.http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-official-p-pardalis-leopard-tort-page.113544/page-13

Congrats

Great thread, guess I missed some of the info. Really good
 

BILBO-03

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You purchased from Ian I presume. He's breeders are huge (much bigger than any babcocki I've seen) but for some reason don't produce many typical looking PP. I have one I raised from him that's obviously different from my others from other trusted PP sources but his that I raised is still well within the range of what you would expect in a SA leopard. They are healthy babies, and I'm not by any means saying they aren't pure, but they have a slightly different appearance than most PP on the market. He's a great guy and I chat with him on occasion so I don't doubt his integrity. He might just have an atypical female for being SA. I also am raising up a different young female that I purchased as a hatchling from a known trusted PP source that happens to not have any double dotted vertebral scutes but is undoubtedly pure PP, so it does happen. Here is a link to my thread showing both the PP I got from Ian and the Spotless one I got from ATC as they have grown through the years.http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-official-p-pardalis-leopard-tort-page.113544/page-13

Congrats
Thanks a lot great info !
 

Kapidolo Farms

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I spoke with Jeff price, who was one of the original SA phenotype breeders. It seems he broke out the 'how to incubate the eggs' based on finding natural nest neonates in his back yard, when 'traditional' incubation methods were not working. He produced many hundred from a female in the 50 pound range and a male (he did say how big the male was) both imported at the same time via Strictly Reptiles in the early 1990's.

In all those hundreds and hundreds of neonates he said there was always some portion that had the two dots, some with three or more, and some with none at all. The diagnostic that seems most consistent from my looking around is that the neonates are elongated, and are freckly on their skin and plastron. The scute dot pattern is least consistent but often most cited.

Yvonne and I produce mutt leopards with no SA geographic variant in them and we get a few with the dots that are linked to the SA variant.

Either way it's a good looking tortoise.

I call it the south African phenotype not to be all technical but to call it what it is, nothing more or less. At this point it is as much selected for as it is a 'natural' expression of a sub-specific genotype. There are no recognized subspecies in leopard tortoises, but several 9 or 11(??) geographic variants.
 
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