New baby Sulcata

tracey.p

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Hello! I have recently been completely heartbroken, as I lost a little hatchling called Puddles, when she was only a few weeks old. At first she would eat wonderfully, drink as much as she could and trudge around everywhere, and then within two days she was gone. I decided it was time to try again and have went to a different place to buy Flower, my new baby, but was still curious as to why Puddles passed. I read your post about the so called 'hatchling failure syndrome' and she displayed all of the signs that mentioned - being kept way too dry, no water bowl in sight, and no humid hides! I am terribly worried, as Flower also was kept on wood chips for the first few months, with no hide in a vivarium. She doesn't eat a great deal, is sleepier than my other torts and makes a loud clicking noise with her mouth. There is no runny nose, or lethargy, just not much of an appetite, and loud clicking. What could it be?
 

tracey.p

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This is little Puddles; when I bought her she didn't stop drinking, much like Flower now
 

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tracey.p

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This is the new little one, Flower
 

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Tom

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The tortoise in your hand is not a few months old. It hatched within the last week or two. Over here in the states, the vast majority of breeders are still starting these babies the old, dry way and many of them die as a result. It seems all the breeders in the UK are still using the methods you describe, and I'm sad to say that you have have experienced the result first hand. I think you are going to experience it again too. Keep this baby warm and hydrated and do your best. Many of them pull through and are fine in the end. I hope this one will be one of those.

If not, you are going to need to get to know a breeder and either convince them to house the baby correctly (simulating the warm African rainy season) or convince them to give you the hatchling RIGHT after it hatches and before too damage is done. Just make sure you have a closed vivarium set up and your temperatures and lighting all set up and running correctly before you bring the baby home.

Here are some tips:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.78361/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
 

Maro2Bear

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Hi Tracey, and welcome to TFO. Congrats on ur new tort! Now, have u read the sticky care sheet on sullys on this forum? There is lots of invaluable info there. what does your enclosure look like, substrate, lighting, and temperatures? It doesnt look like you have an enclosed area? Humidity level? Read the caresheets and post more info on how you have things set up and then folks can provide better ideas how to better assist you and Flower.

I see that @Tom has provided you with the links!
 

phebe121

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Have to say sorry for you loss and flower is just adorable
 

tracey.p

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I already have the new baby that is a few months old, but yes, I think you are right about Puddles Tom. I do not have a closed vivarium, but a large guinea pig, plastic run, with a mix of soil and play sand, two water bowls at either end, three hides, fiddlesticks and a food slate. I have a large, mercury vapour bulb, at one end, and a lower wattage heat bulb for night time. I spray the enclosure as much as I can, to keep it humid, but it dries up pretty quick. Shall I just buy a vivarium, as it is best for Sulcatas, or are there any alternatives? I have one other hatchling called Crash who is a little younger than the new comer, and he is doing great. I will read your posts now, but any suggestions?
 

tracey.p

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Thank you Phebe121, and yes, I have had Crash for a few months, so have done a lot of reading on the care sheets of sullies Maro2Bear :) The hot end is in it's 80's and cooler end high 70's. I soak them both every day and give a diet of chopped dandelion leaves, fresh grass, rose leaves and petals, carrot top greens, sometimes a little treat of cucumber and watercress. I put calcium supplement on the food and once a week, extra vitamin supplement.
 

Tom

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I already have the new baby that is a few months old, but yes, I think you are right about Puddles Tom. I do not have a closed vivarium, but a large guinea pig, plastic run, with a mix of soil and play sand, two water bowls at either end, three hides, fiddlesticks and a food slate. I have a large, mercury vapour bulb, at one end, and a lower wattage heat bulb for night time. I spray the enclosure as much as I can, to keep it humid, but it dries up pretty quick. Shall I just buy a vivarium, as it is best for Sulcatas, or are there any alternatives? I have one other hatchling called Crash who is a little younger than the new comer, and he is doing great. I will read your posts now, but any suggestions?

You will never maintain good conditions in an open topped enclosure unless the whole room is warm and humid. Physics prevents it. Any sort of closed chamber will work. Here is what I use:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/

The general concept is to heat and humidify a small quantity of air until you have the right conditions in a contained closed space, and prevent the colder drier room air from diluting your "good" air.

Sulcatas should not be housed in pairs. It is not good for either of them. I would house these two separately.
 

Maro2Bear

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Thank you Phebe121, and yes, I have had Crash for a few months, so have done a lot of reading on the care sheets of sullies Maro2Bear :) The hot end is in it's 80's and cooler end high 70's. I soak them both every day and give a diet of chopped dandelion leaves, fresh grass, rose leaves and petals, carrot top greens, sometimes a little treat of cucumber and watercress. I put calcium supplement on the food and once a week, extra vitamin supplement.

  • Regarding your substrate: I think most would advise you to not use play sand in your setup. They ingest the sand and it doesn't come out.
 

tracey.p

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That looks perfect, I will look into getting a closed chamber place for her to live, and Crash, but not together. I just don't want to lose another baby by not being up to date with my husbandry. Any idea of the clicking noise too? When I inspected today, I found that the bottom part of the beak looks as though it just hits the top part on the inside (???), I think this also put her off eating quite a bit, whatever is happening in her little mouth, though maybe it could be a respiratory infection? When I took her to the vet this week, she didn't see anything terribly wrong with her, but they are very good at disguising their problems :(
 

tracey.p

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I have just ordered a vivarium, and will get the bulbs and coco noir tomorrow. Thank you everyone for your help, and I will be sure to be posting up pics soon! :)
 

Maro2Bear

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That looks perfect, I will look into getting a closed chamber place for her to live, and Crash, but not together. I just don't want to lose another baby by not being up to date with my husbandry. Any idea of the clicking noise too? When I inspected today, I found that the bottom part of the beak looks as though it just hits the top part on the inside (???), I think this also put her off eating quite a bit, whatever is happening in her little mouth, though maybe it could be a respiratory infection? When I took her to the vet this week, she didn't see anything terribly wrong with her, but they are very good at disguising their problems :(

  • What are your temperatures, especially at night? All temps are important of course :) but i think many "newbies" have their night time temps set far too low, especially with hatchlings like yours. So, triple check all temps and make sure that your temperature gauge is recording temp where your sully sits not 10 inches or so above substrate level on the side of the pen.
 

tracey.p

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Okay, I will check again tonight, but I think it is around the 70's, like the cool end during the day. Is this too low??
 
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If Flower is clicking make it hotter, make it humid, soak him/her (it's way too early to tell) daily. (This is what I've been recommended with my sick sulcata hatchling) The clicking could be a sign of an URI, call around the exotic vets in your area, ASK and do research on the vet before you go to make sure the vet knows tortoises first. My hatchling, Columbus, is getting over his URI. Tom and Hermes helped me through my dilemma with Columbus and a new set up! I also got a new vet, who I am more than happy with. You've come to the right place! (I go humid and wet, a dehydrated hatchling is very real, serious, and sometimes fatal).
And seriously, these guys know there stuff. They're very experienced and successful tortoise keepers.
 

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