Need some help, baby isn't eating

GPD966

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Hey guys,

New owner in need of some help.

I received my baby leopard from Tortoise supply.com on June 11th. He arrived in great shape and I was told he was just shy of two months old. He immediately began eating spring mix, even right from our hands. He was active enough and seemed happy. A little over a week ago he stopped eating and has become lethargic except when soaked. Which is daily for 1/2 hour.

The diet he has been offered is spring mix, dandelion leaves, turnip greens, kale, endive, escarole and some young yucca from the garden. He seemed to stop eating when I sprinkled calcium or MV powder on the food so I stopped that for the time being. He was also offered Herbal Tortoise Hay from Tortoisesupply.com which he showed no interest in. The only thing he has even attempted to eat over the past 5 days is two very small slices of strawberry that I used to tempt him to eat. He didn't finish either of those.

My enclosure set-up is as follows: Zoo-med tortoise house, cypress mulch mixed with coconut coir substrate and wet sphagnum moss on the hot side of the enclosure. Powersun MBV 100 watt (12hr timer), Heat Emitter bulb 100watt (on 24/7) in a dual light fixture stand about 10 inches from substrate. Medium water dish to soak and a ceramic tile to eat off of. Temps are low 70's cool side, high 80's low 90's hot side with the hot spot mid 90's. Humidity mid box has been in the 50% range but I just raked all the substrate and soaked it to get the humidity up to 70%. Obviously higher on the wet moss.

He looks fine other than his behavior. Eyes look good, he opens them regularly. He hasn't pooped since the weekend when he had diarrhea on his substrate. He had been going daily in his bath when he was eating. He did have the white urine discharge in his bath today.

I have him in his first baby food soak right now. Please give me some insight to anything I can do or do differently.

Thanks
 

JoesMum

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Hi. I amsorry to hear this.

Could you post some pictures of your enclosure and lighting to see if we can see anything that will help.

How certain are you of those temperatures. Do you measure them with a temperature gun thermometer; they're best for accuracy. Soak him daily for a good 20 mknutes while he is sick.

The white urine discharge is urates and completely normal, so you that's one less thing to worry about :)
 

Tom

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I hate it when these things come up. Tyler is a friend and a very good guy, so I never want to say things that could be construed as "bad" about him. I never want to see a problem with any tortoise he sells. It should be stated up front the Tyler and I have different ideas about how babies should be started.

Let's start with some questions and see if we can figure out what is going on.
1. Who told you an open topped tortoise house was the way to go? It isn't. Its too dry in my experience and difficult to maintain good temperatures.
2. What type of "heat emitter bulb" have you got? Is it the ceramic type that gives off no light? If yes, that is good, but you should run it on a thermostat. 200 watts of power burning over that little open habitat is going to seriously dry things out. Is it a "colored" bulb? Those sometimes mess with little tortoise heads and make things look funny to them.
3. I think low 70s is too low for a baby leopard. I'd keep it no lower than 80 all the time.
4. I see you are soaking daily. That is good. How often did Tyler soak the baby before you got it?
5. How much time did this baby spend outside in an outdoor enclosure before you got it? How much time since you've had it?

The only things I see that you could do differently at this point are to cover the top and increase humidity and get your overnight low a little higher.


@TylerStewart we are talking about you here. Please chime in with any insight or corrections.
 

Tom

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The white urine discharge is urates and completely normal, so you that's one less thing to worry about.

Just for the sake of discussion here, I don't normally see urates expelled from well hydrated baby leopard tortoises that are soaked daily and kept in humid environments. This could be a clue. Its just one detail of many to consider...
 

JoesMum

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Just for the sake of discussion here, I don't normally see urates expelled from well hydrated baby leopard tortoises that are soaked daily and kept in humid environments. This could be a clue. Its just one detail of many to consider...
Good point!
 

GPD966

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Thank you all for the quick reply's. I will get pics up tonight. Here are some questions answered. I have to run to work for a few hours.

How certain are you of those temperatures. Do you measure them with a temperature gun thermometer; they're best for accuracy:
I use a digital thermometer that you run across your forehead. Seems very accurate.

1. Who told you an open topped tortoise house was the way to go? It isn't. Its too dry in my experience and difficult to maintain good temperatures. It was a choice I made after weighing all the options. Regretting it now. I do have a 10 gallon aquarium I can set him up in until I can get a larger glass enclosure.
2. What type of "heat emitter bulb" have you got? Is it the ceramic type that gives off no light? If yes, that is good, but you should run it on a thermostat. 200 watts of power burning over that little open habitat is going to seriously dry things out. Is it a "colored" bulb? Those sometimes mess with little tortoise heads and make things look funny to them. It's black ceramic. No light emitted.
4. I see you are soaking daily. That is good. How often did Tyler soak the baby before you got it? 3 times a week
5. How much time did this baby spend outside in an outdoor enclosure before you got it? How much time since you've had it? Unsure. He was never been outside since I got him.

Is your Powersun a compact coiled florescent? It's the expensive Mercury vapor bulb by Zoo-med.

Thanks again and I'll be available in a few hours.

-Bill
 

JoesMum

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Thanks for the answers. I am sure @Tom will read them too.

A human forehead is not accurate enough for this purpose. You can, and should, buy a temperature gun inexpensively from Amazon or a hardware store.

The MVB is good for UVB and basking as long as it is mounted correctly. Photos will help us see.

You shouldn't need the heat emitter on 24/7. Use it with a thermostat to avoid overheating your tort. Generally, the CHE is only needed at night.
 

GPD966

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I've posted a few pics. The baby food bath seemed make him interested in eating again or at least trying. He's pushing it around a lot with his nose. He did eat some greens though, first time in a week.

Alarming though is I placed him in his water tray and he sunk his head in like he was going to drink but just blew bubbles and never opened his eyes or lifted his head. I immediately removed him and put him under the lamp, he walked over to the food on his own and started munching the strawberry in the pic. I did wake him up, hopefully that was just my overbearing mistake. This whole thing is stressful.
 

GPD966

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So I moved him into a different room. Old room temp was 69 the new one is 75. I also ordered a laser thermometer and Temp controller off amazon. They'll be here Friday.

He was a lot more interested in eating tonight. He seems to have a difficult time getting the food in his mouth. HIs beak seems kinda large. Is this possible? It wasn't a problem 3 weeks ago.
 

Levi the Leopard

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Just for the sake of discussion here, I don't normally see urates expelled from well hydrated baby leopard tortoises that are soaked daily and kept in humid environments. This could be a clue. Its just one detail of many to consider...


This has been my experience, too.. None of the leopards that have passed through my care have expelled urates.

Adult Russians and CDT yes, leopard hatchlings or juveniles, no.
 

GPD966

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He expelled urates in his baby food bath this AM. It had some darker matter in it.

He was drinking though.
 

JoesMum

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He expelled urates in his baby food bath this AM. It had some darker matter in it.

He was drinking though.
Urates for a baby imply dehydration. Make sure you are soaking daily and for at least 20 minutes, changing the water if necessary... twice a day would not be inappropriate for the next few days.
 
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