My tortoise wont eat

[jonny jordan]

hi my year old marginated tortoise wont eat hasnt ate on his own as 3 weeks, i took him to the vet and she checked his poo, found nothing but gave me a course of antibitotics anyways and hes taken them for about a week. Im force feeding him as best as i can and bathing him 3 times a day to try and get him to eat. His uvb light is on 12-14 hours a day everyday and our home temperature stays around 18-20 degrees at night. Im running out of ideas can anyone help? is this normal for a marginated tortoise? i also cant find a weight that he should be to know if hes underweight. can someone help?

 

[dmmj]

why on earth did she give you antibiotic if they didn't find anything wrong? did she give you a reason why?antibiotics will often throw a tortoise off feeding

 

[Tom]

It is normal for them to want to hibernate this time of year. Why on earth would your vet prescribe antibiotics and tell you to force feed when they found nothing wrong? That makes no sense.

What sort of heating and lighting equipment are you using? Any UV? What ape of bulb? What are your three other temps? Warm side, cool side and basking area? You already said your overnight low was 18.

Sound to me like he's trying to hibernate and you might need to try some techniques to convince him not to. The antibiotics and force feeding have probably done damage that you will now have to try to come back from.

There is no need to soak 3 times a day. Once a day, or once every other day, should be fine.

 

[jonny jordan]

yeah they can hibernate but apparently hes too small and might not survive. She couldnt break down the poo sample and said as he came from an exotic pet shop with loads of different animals like racoons, parrots etc, he might have picked up an infection. My vet also thought he was underweight although since she measured him i found out you should measure the straight length and she measured the dome of his shell. Its a UVB bulb so supposed to be a UV bulb and basking lamp all in one and it was new in october. In below the lamp its 33-35, and the cool side around 20-24.

 

[Lyn W]

Are you in UK Jonny?

 

[jonny jordan]

thats right im in northern ireland actually

 

[Tom]

yeah they can hibernate but apparently hes too small and might not survive. She couldnt break down the poo sample and said as he came from an exotic pet shop with loads of different animals like racoons, parrots etc, he might have picked up an infection. My vet also thought he was underweight although since she measured him i found out you should measure the straight length and she measured the dome of his shell. Its a UVB bulb so supposed to be a UV bulb and basking lamp all in one and it was new in october. In below the lamp its 33-35, and the cool side around 20-24.

You don't have to ever hibernate, and given your circumstances, you shouldn't allow her to try to hibernate this year for sure. Here are some tips to stop the urge to hibernate:
1. Add more light. Run a long strip light or two over the enclosure and put it on the same timer as your basking bulb for 13-14 hours a day. Try to get something in the 5000-6500K color range.
2. Add more heat. Put another flood bulb over the other side of the tank and keep temps warmer.Get your basking temp up to 37-38. Keep the cool side of the enclosure around 32-33 during the day.
3. Add night heat. Get a ceramic heating element and run it on a thermostat to keep the night temps and daytime ambient warmer. Normally 18-20 at night would be okay for this species, but you will need to warm things up a bit, day and night, to convince the tortoise to not try to hibernate.
4. Soak once a day for 20-30 minutes in warm water.
5. Several times a day take the tortoise out of its hiding spot and put it in front of the food pile.

 

[Lyn W]

thats right im in northern ireland actually

I don't know if your vet is a reptile specialist but if you look on he BATK site (British Association of Tort Keepers) they have a list of recommended vets for torts and there may be one in your area.
Did vet try to analyse poo sample while you were there? Whenever I take one in to test for parasites it usually takes about 4 days to get the result.
I don't know what your temp range is for your tort but there's probably a caresheet under species specific which will tell you that? I use an arcadia mini d3 uva/b bulb for mine by day and a ceramic heat emitter at night (CHE) this is run through a thermostat so that it stops temps getting too hot or cold. Even with my Central heating n 24/7 - it still gets quite chilly in our part of world at night now and torts are quite sensitive to changes (as I found out last weekend when my stopped weeing!)
Hope he picks up soon.

 

[jonny jordan]

thanks tom ill try those things i just hope he starts eating hes really worrying me No lyn, My vet is not a reptile specialist but has a bearded dragon and some type of iguana of her own and according to her she knows a bit about tortoises although she hasnt convinved me so far! no she didnt test it there and then she told she would ring in a day or two, and she did saying she she couldnt anaylse it and that it could be bladder stones and at my tortoises size surgery to remove them could be fatal! im not sure what she knows. i will get the CHE tomorrow and try that along with a basking light. The pet shop owner i bought him off told me a few lies, as apparently my tortoise should eat only lettuce and broccoli and was easy to take care off, whereas ive learned he can eat lettuce but theres little to no nutrition and although i love the little guy he has been a constant worry since i got him. thanks for the kind wishes i will try what you have saud

 

[jonny jordan]

Also if its not a strange question what colour should my tortoises poo be? and can anybody tell me what the symptoms of bladder stones are?

 

[Lyn W]

thanks tom ill try those things i just hope he starts eating hes really worrying me No lyn, My vet is not a reptile specialist but has a bearded dragon and some type of iguana of her own and according to her she knows a bit about tortoises although she hasnt convinved me so far! no she didnt test it there and then she told she would ring in a day or two, and she did saying she she couldnt anaylse it and that it could be bladder stones and at my tortoises size surgery to remove them could be fatal! im not sure what she knows. i will get the CHE tomorrow and try that along with a basking light. The pet shop owner i bought him off told me a few lies, as apparently my tortoise should eat only lettuce and broccoli and was easy to take care off, whereas ive learned he can eat lettuce but theres little to no nutrition and although i love the little guy he has been a constant worry since i got him. thanks for the kind wishes i will try what you have saud

You may find www.thetortoisetable.org.uk useful for tort safe foods.
Now its winter and the weeds have gone I have to rely on shop bought food. I have a leopard tort so his diet could be very different to yours but Florette Classic crispy salad was recommended to me (as the leaf mix is better than iceberg, cos or usual lettuce). I also like Sainsbury's mixed leaf salad bag as that has a good leaf mix too. He has some kale, spring greens, a little romaine, etc - all in moderation.
I grind 'Readigrass' to almost a fine powder and sprinkle it over any food and spray it all with water to add fibre, but this is all based on a diet for a leopard, so check your caresheet to see what's ok for yours.
I've never used a CHE without a thermostat to switch it on and off as necessary so I don't know if it would cause overheating without one. Apart from the MVB which I bought at Pets at Home (£39) I bought the rest at The Range che = £22
thermostat= £35, 2 wide dome clamp lamps = £25 each (but hang rather than use clamps which can fail and cause fires)
Not cheap but worth it in the long run if it saves on vets fees.

 

[Lyn W]

Also if its not a strange question what colour should my tortoises poo be? and can anybody tell me what the symptoms of bladder stones are?

If you type in 'bladder' in the search box, that will throw out a lot of posts about it and you may find the answer there.

 

[jonny jordan]

great thanks ill have a look on there yeah that sounds similiar to mine ill try those ive been giving him clover, dandelion leaves, watercress, lettuce (also from sainsburys ) and that sort of thing ive tried everything on his list of foods he can eat. ill be in pets at home tomorrow and the range is near that so i can grab a CHE there, along with the thermostat and the clamps you recommended if they have them. is there a difference between a UVB bulb and an MVB? sorry this is my first tort and ive only had him a few months so all very new.

 

[Tom]

Here are a couple of threads that might help you:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

I typed this up for russians, but care is essentially the same. There might be some tips in there that will help.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

 

[Lyn W]

The MVB (mercury vapour bulb) is just one bulb but it gives heat. light and uvb - very easy to use in the day. (Don't get any coil or long thin loop types as these can damage the torts eyes) I've been pleased with arcadia. (UV are the ultra violet rays that help digestion etc (3 sorts A, B and C - B is essential to torts.)
The clamp lamp domes are great but don't use the actual clamps, there is a loop to attach a chain or something secure to hang it over the enclosure. I think about 10 -12 inches above top of shell is recommended - that's where a digital temp gun is handy so you can spot check temps and raise or lower bulb/che as required. I got mine off amazon but maybe b&q or screwfix etc stock them.
The che is great on a thermostat but the mvb won't work on one because when you turn mvb off there is a delay so it won't come straight back on. I thought I'd broken mine the first day I had it!!

 

[jonny jordan]

thanks tom, ill check those out. thank you lyn, my UVB was the same, it has a delay and i thought i broke mine too!

 

[jonny jordan]

thanks tom, ill check those out. thank you lyn, my UVB was the same, it has a delay and i thought i broke mine too! I'll try and get the new mvb bulb and Che tomorrow and get him eating as soon as possible I'll report back with updates thank you all

 

[jonny jordan]

hi guys just thought i would update you guys, my tortoise ate a couple of bits of dandelion leaves and a few bits of clover yesterday yay hes also really active and seems happy, thanks guys the new lights, heat mat and increasing the temps really helped thank you

 

[Lyn W]

Pleased to hear he seems happier, Jonny!
I've never used a reptile heat mat as I read that they can cause burns/overheating under torts so been a bit nervous about them.
Just keep an eye on temps for awhile to make sure he doesn't get too hot and so that you can adjust all your heat sources as necessary - there's always tweaking to do!
Hope he continues to go from strength to strength.

 

[jonny jordan]

thank you, yeah i had the temp up to 35 degrees in the warm end but im backing it off to 32 degrees now that hes eating again.hes such a worry!
thanks for the good wishes