My sulcata's habitat?

[Cali Girl]

My tortoise Titan will be a year old in November. We live in the desert. I have two enclosuses for him. One for the day time and the second for at night. I would love some insight on his space. The photo shown is the day time. The one at night is just a fish tank with compressed coconut substrate as bedding.

Also, curious to know what their growth rate should be. I feel that Titan isn't growing as fast as I thought he would. That's why we built an outdoor enclosure for him.

Your thoughts?

 

[Hannah Staine]

My tortoise is about 5 months old but he also is not growing like the others. He does not seem as interested in food as sulcatas are known to be. I don't know how to explain some growing a lot and some not.

 

[Gillian M]

Hi @Cali Girl and a warm welcome to the forum!

A cute tort. GOD bless.

Please read the "Beginners Mistakes" Thread and the care sheet on sulcatas.There is also a "section" on ENCLOSURES which could help you.

 

[Speedy-1]

There really are no set growth rates for Sulcata's . rate of growth is influenced by a virtually limitless number of factors , from genetics to available food and amount consumed ! Speedy seems to grow in spurts . Don't worry assuming you have things properly set up he will grow. once he starts you may wish he would slow down a little !

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!

In my opinion, there are four main considerations to take when looking at a tortoise's growth - a good diet, UVB from either the sun or a GOOD light, exercise and humidity.

You can get a good list of foods to offer from this thread:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

 

[Maro2Bear]

The outdoor enclosure looks a bit too dry and sandy, and not lush, moist or humid. The sand substrate from what ive read here on @Tom 's postings isnt recommended, especially for a young sully. Is your humidity high enough? Id opt to remove the sandy substrate and replace with a few bags of cypress mulch, coir, or peat moss, and he will have something to burrow in to.

 

[Big Charlie]

Your enclosures look too dry. I think you should make the indoor enclosure a closed chamber to hold the humidity in. If you can plant some grass or weeds (there is a tortoise seed mix you can get) in your outdoor space, your tort would love it.

You may need to change his diet. There are better options than lettuce.

 

[sibi]

My observations indicate there's something is not right with Titan. He's way too small for a year old sulcata. Even though sullies grow at different rates based on several factors, Titan seems to be lacking calcium and Vitamin D3. His carapace looks a little pyramided and dry. Are you still soaking him? If so, how often? Because of his size and your climate, I would soak him everyday. Please perform this test: Lightly press on his scutes especially the back middle scute. Does it give in a bit? Press also on the underside shell (plastron). Does it give in a bit? If the answer is yes, your baby may be suffering from metabolic bone disease (mbd). This would explain his lack of growth and appetite. Mbd can be stopped and treated. Just let me know how the test went and we can go from there.

The outside enclosure is cute but may not be practical. There's no way he can get sun rays with that mesh wiring. UVB rays can nearly pass through that. If you want him to get UV rays, you'll need to give him a much larger outside enclosure with no obstructions like glass or screening. Do you have a humidity gauge, temp gun, humidifier? If not, I recommend you get them cause what you want to do is create an environment that's humid, warm, and safe. Your enclosure has plenty of plants and hiding areas. That's good. But during colder days, is there some sort of heating? In the wild, sulcatas burrow to keep a constant temp of about 80 degrees and about 80% humidity. As a captive tort, we have to try and stimulate the same environment. What's most challenging for many members here is to keep the humidity high especially in an outside enclosure. I've dealt with that by using a humidifier and it works! Finally, the proper foods are also a factor in growth and well being. The threads provided above is a good start in helping Titan to stay healthy.

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome.

My first question would be: Where did you get him and how was he started? Wet or dry routine as a hatchling?
Second question would be: Is the indoor enclosure kept humid like monsoon season?
Third: How often do you soak him?

The outdoor enclosure looks nice, but outside all day is not good for babies. It dries them out and it slows their growth tremendously.

What do you feed him? Any Mazuri, clover, alfalfa, or other protein source?

Unfortunately, there is a lot of old, out-dated, misinformation about care for this species still circulating around out there in the world. Give these a read through and see where you are at:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

Also, are you sure of that age? If he hatched in November, that would mean the egg was laid in August. That would be unusual. Mine don't usually lay past May. December through May is typical, but sometimes they do odd things. Not impossible at all, just unusual. Maybe he hatched in the ground? Those sometimes don't hatch until late September or October.

 

[Tom]

My tortoise is about 5 months old but he also is not growing like the others. He does not seem as interested in food as sulcatas are known to be. I don't know how to explain some growing a lot and some not.

I usually has to do with how they are started at the breeders place before the new owner takes possession of them.

 

[Tom]

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!

In my opinion, there are four main considerations to take when looking at a tortoise's growth - a good diet, UVB from either the sun or a GOOD light, exercise and humidity.

You can get a good list of foods to offer from this thread:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

What about hydration?

 

[Tom]

Titan seems to be lacking calcium and Vitamin D3.
There's no way he can get sun rays with that mesh wiring. UVB rays can nearly pass through that. If you want him to get UV rays, you'll need to give him a much larger outside enclosure with no obstructions like glass or screening.

I love you to pieces and don't want to upset you, but I would be remiss if I didn't voice my disagreement with the above two points.

I'll explain: There is no way for us to tell from this post about Titan's calcium intake, but if he's outside in that enclosure then his D3 levels are most likely excellent…

… which brings me to point number two: UVB can pass through 1/2" hardware cloth like that just fine. A small percentage of the UV might be blocked by the wire, but not enough to matter even a little bit. Finer screen, like window screen, might block more, but even that wouldn't block enough to matter in an outdoor enclosure in direct sunlight. Indoors, fine screen might block enough UV from an indoor UV tube to matter, but not outside.

I hope I worded that nicely enough…

 

[sibi]

I love you to pieces and don't want to upset you, but I would be remiss if I didn't voice my disagreement with the above two points.

I'll explain: There is no way for us to tell from this post about Titan's calcium intake, but if he's outside in that enclosure then his D3 levels are most likely excellent…

… which brings me to point number two: UVB can pass through 1/2" hardware cloth like that just fine. A small percentage of the UV might be blocked by the wire, but not enough to matter even a little bit. Finer screen, like window screen, might block more, but even that wouldn't block enough to matter in an outdoor enclosure in direct sunlight. Indoors, fine screen might block enough UV from an indoor UV tube to matter, but not outside.

I hope I worded that nicely enough…

The reason why I word it like that is for the benefit of all those new ones who may think UVB rays could get through glass and screenings just fine, because it doesn't. But, in this particular case, I really believe the tort is suffering from some calcium and D3 deficiency. If that should be the case, then the tort isn't getting sufficient UVB rays despite the amount of rays that may or may not be filtering through that wire mesh. And, even though I would not set up the outdoor enclosure that way, if you think that's fine, then I respect your opinion because you've been doing this for a long time.
I do want to add that I've dealt with a tortoise that was near death with MBD, and I nursed her back to health. Living with a sully that was three years old and weighed 4 ounces when I got her was an eye opening experience in it of itself. No doubt, my sully had a dry beginning and lived in a terrible environment, and even though there was permanent damage to her spine and internal organs, she is otherwise free of calcium and D3 deficiency because of the intensive care I've given her and continue to do so. Any obstruction of sunlight in an outdoor enclosure is a no no for me.

And, yes sir, you worded it very nicely indeed

 

[sibi]

@Cali Girl, can you let me know if your outdoor enclosure was just recently constructed for use by your baby? The reason I ask is because it appears that since you're now just asking for opinions about it, it appears that your baby hadn't been in that enclosure for long. Also, it looks like the enclosure is located in an outside corner of your home. If so, is there sunlight that gets through and for how long? What I'm trying to determine is if your baby is actually receiving natural sunlight during the day and for how long. There's some question as to whether or not your baby receives sufficient enough UV rays. But, as others indicates here, your baby looks dry and it can be a major contribution to a stunted growth. No doubt that what Tom indicated about how your baby began can be enough to cause stunted growth, but there are other contributing factors as well, like humidity, hydration, and UV deficiency to name a few. Please let me know. Thanks.

 

[Cali Girl]

Hi @Cali Girl and a warm welcome to the forum!

A cute tort. GOD bless.

Please read the "Beginners Mistakes" Thread and the care sheet on sulcatas.There is also a "section" on ENCLOSURES which could help you.

Thank you I will.

 

[Cali Girl]

The outdoor enclosure looks a bit too dry and sandy, and not lush, moist or humid. The sand substrate from what ive read here on @Tom 's postings isnt recommended, especially for a young sully. Is your humidity high enough? Id opt to remove the sandy substrate and replace with a few bags of cypress mulch, coir, or peat moss, and he will have something to burrow in to.

Thank you. I'm looking in to getting a monster substrate for him.

 

[Cali Girl]

Thank you. I'm looking in to getting a monster substrate for him.

Oops! I meant a moisture substrate for Titan.

 

[Big Charlie]

Oops! I meant a moisture substrate for Titan.

I was curious about the monster substrate! Tom recommends orchid bark.

 

[Cali Girl]

@Cali Girl, can you let me know if your outdoor enclosure was just recently constructed for use by your baby? The reason I ask is because it appears that since you're now just asking for opinions about it, it appears that your baby hadn't been in that enclosure for long. Also, it looks like the enclosure is located in an outside corner of your home. If so, is there sunlight that gets through and for how long? What I'm trying to determine is if your baby is actually receiving natural sunlight during the day and for how long. There's some question as to whether or not your baby receives sufficient enough UV rays. But, as others indicates here, your baby looks dry and it can be a major contribution to a stunted growth. No doubt that what Tom indicated about how your baby began can be enough to cause stunted growth, but there are other contributing factors as well, like humidity, hydration, and UV deficiency to name a few. Please let me know. Thanks.

Yes, we built the enclosure in June. It is constructed in the corner of my home. It gets lots of sun on the summer days.....maybe too much sun. I would say about 3-4 hours of sun in the summer months which is over 90 degrees. Not sure what the Fall or winter months will get but we don't get much weather in Southern Cali. He has a water container but I don't see him in it any more. When he first started in there I saw poop in it all the time...not any more. I stopped soaking him and I see now that is a mistake. I thought the water container was suffient. I also sprinkle calcium on his food once every 14 days. He feeds on home grown collard greens, squash flowers, geraniums, grass sprinkles, dandelions and strawberry tops. As well as romaine lettuce. I hope this helps.

 

[Cali Girl]

Hello and welcome.

My first question would be: Where did you get him and how was he started? Wet or dry routine as a hatchling?
Second question would be: Is the indoor enclosure kept humid like monsoon season?
Third: How often do you soak him?

The outdoor enclosure looks nice, but outside all day is not good for babies. It dries them out and it slows their growth tremendously.

What do you feed him? Any Mazuri, clover, alfalfa, or other protein source?

Unfortunately, there is a lot of old, out-dated, misinformation about care for this species still circulating around out there in the world. Give these a read through and see where you are at:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

Also, are you sure of that age? If he hatched in November, that would mean the egg was laid in August. That would be unusual. Mine don't usually lay past May. December through May is typical, but sometimes they do odd things. Not impossible at all, just unusual. Maybe he hatched in the ground? Those sometimes don't hatch until late September or October.