My Slightly unorthodox Sulcata Hatchling Enclosure

[TopNotchBoas]

Hello all,

Longtime lurker of this forum. Really enjoy this place!

Just wanted to share a couple quick photos of my sulcata hatchling setup, nestled in among many boa constrictors . It's a part of a large stack of 4 x 2 x 1 cages (www.boaphileplastics.com). I decided to keep them in the boa room, as the ambient temps in there are kept strict at 78+ at all times (which translates to 80+ in their enclosures), which is perfect for a high humidity sulcata setup. Heat is provided by two strips of heat tape: One 11 inch strip on the floor (the same for all my adult boa cages) and one 3 inch strip. They are regulated using separate temperature probes attached externally fed to a high dollar proportional thermostat that adjusts voltage in percentage increments instead of on/off cycling. Temps are set to achieve approximately 95 degree surface temps inside the enclosure. The sulcatas can burrow (currently using cypress mulch as substrate) and get their shell temp to about 91-93 range.

Near future plans are to add a radiant heat panel for overhead heat and to have more control over temps in general. It will be run in conjunction with the exterior heat tape to give them multiple ways/angles to thermoregulate (burrow or bask). These cages are also expandable (put two+ together) in 4 foot width increments, I'm going to take it to 8 feet.

Thus far they have all been thriving, tripling in weight over a couple months time, even without an overhead heat source! We love our first tortoises, 4 little het ivory sulcatas named Stan, Peter, Francine, and Lois, and look forward to enjoying them for the rest of our lives . Thanks to the various members here who are valuable sources of information, especially Tom.

Here's Stan hanging out in the "semi-warm" zone with a shell temp of 85ish. Inside the hide and/or by burrowing he can easily achieve 91ish temps.

The "brains" of the heating setup (also running boa cages):

The group:

 

[Yvonne G]

Very nice! That's quite a set-up your have there.

 

[mini_max]

Very very cute little tortoise family you have there!

 

[Tom]

This is fantastic! You rock man.

I'm currently building a couple of closed chambers to stack on each other and I'm planning on doing something similar with the heat. I'm going to use RHPs from Reptile Basics overhead instead of the heat tape though. The other one will use a Kane heat mat. My goal for this is to provide heat without using any IR-A producing heat bulbs to dry out their carapace. You have effectively done the same thing there. Please keep us posted on how the babies do in this enclosure. My test subjects won't hatch for another 11 weeks, so Whatever happens in YOUR enclosure for the next 3 months will give me insight into how well this strategy will work.

You babies look great, BTW. Do you have weights on them?

 

[keepergale]

Nice. I also use repurposed Boaphiles. I have Boaphile radiant heat panels for the main enclosure heat source. I think you and your tortoise will find they work great.

 

[TopNotchBoas]

Thanks for all the kind words everyone!

This is fantastic! You rock man.

I'm currently building a couple of closed chambers to stack on each other and I'm planning on doing something similar with the heat. I'm going to use RHPs from Reptile Basics overhead instead of the heat tape though. The other one will use a Kane heat mat. My goal for this is to provide heat without using any IR-A producing heat bulbs to dry out their carapace. You have effectively done the same thing there. Please keep us posted on how the babies do in this enclosure. My test subjects won't hatch for another 11 weeks, so Whatever happens in YOUR enclosure for the next 3 months will give me insight into how well this strategy will work.

You babies look great, BTW. Do you have weights on them?

Thanks Tom! Much appreciated!

Those RHPs from Reptile Basics look very nice. I'll be going with one of those or one from Bean Farm: http://beanfarm.com/index.php?cPath=1204_1209

An advantages of using such a thin material cage is that the heat from externally placed tape can pass through it into the enclosure. It's a cheaper initial investment ($4 of flexwatt heat tape vs $100+ heat mat) without the potential for breakdown/shock etc. Not that it's likely with the proven quality of those Kane heat mats. When using thicker cage material, flexwatt heat tape is not an option, as it simply won't penetrate (and can't be mounted inside the enclosure due to electric shock potential).

I do have gram weights. I have to admit to a bit of a no-no regarding quarantine. We have had our first two since early November and they both weighed in upon arrival at 60 grams. Today they weigh 162.5 and 143.2 grams. The other two we just got from Andrew Hermes 3 weeks ago (@ATC) and they weigh 85 grams. The growth from the larger two has been very smooth and they appear very healthy and active.

I recall reading in a care guide elsewhere that sulcata tortoises absolutely require an overhead heat source. The results from my setup seem to indicate otherwise.

I'll be sure and keep everyone updated on the progress of these little ones. And I hope you like photos... cause I take a lot of em ! Here's more from 2 weeks ago. Stan has a little mazuri on his back I didn't notice much until I looked at the pics but I dont think he minds .

The daytime excursion "setup". I learned that photographing 4 active sulcatas is not an easy feat. They scatter quick!

 

[TopNotchBoas]

I forgot to mention the light in the setup is an 18 inch Zoo Med 10.0 UVB T8 fluorescent. Since the light source is not their heat source they dont spend a large amount of time 'basking' under it. They do get regular trips outside and likely get the UVB they need from that coupled with what they do get from the Zoo Med tube.

 

[Tom]

All of this is fantastic info! So in around three months the original two gained nearly 102 and and 81 grams respectively. By any standard of measurement that is success. They don't gain weight like that if conditions are not good.

I'm going to guess that the second pic is one of your originals and the very first pic is one of the new ones from Andy. Am I right?

I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to keep bugging you for updates. Your logic here about which equipment to use all makes very good sense for your set up. Your results demonstrate that I am on the right track with my thought processes on my upcoming growth experiments. Thank you for paving the way first!

 

[Jodie]

Great thread and information. Thanks! I am planning a remodel this summer and we were trying to figure out a way to get away from the drying heat lamps and CHE. I also thought the heat had to come from above. Thanks again for sharing this.

 

[Tom]

I also thought the heat had to come from above.

This is what "they" say. But "they" also say that sulcatas are desert animals and should be kept hot and dry. There is much to learn. I appreciate the efforts of people like TopNotchBoas paving the way.

 

[TopNotchBoas]

I'm going to guess that the second pic is one of your originals and the very first pic is one of the new ones from Andy. Am I right?

I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to keep bugging you for updates. Your logic here about which equipment to use all makes very good sense for your set up. Your results demonstrate that I am on the right track with my thought processes on my upcoming growth experiments. Thank you for paving the way first!

Thanks Tom. Bug me any time.

That's correct regarding which ones are from Andy. From the initial two that I got in November one certainly seemed to have more early pyrmaiding signs than the other ... and they both had/have distinct personality traits: Stan is always out on the go. Peter constantly burrows. The breeder I got them from recommended a a humidity range be provided via a base substrate of sand/peat moss covered with a top layer of hay. The idea, he said, was that they could burrow for more humidity as needed. The tortoise (Peter) that tends to burrow more seemed to have a much smoother shell in the breeders 'humidity range' setup. I'm not sure if that's definitely why he had a smoother shell but it helped convince me to go with the high humidity setup. I was all ready to build a big ol' open tortoise table prior to that Here's a photo of the two larger ones from November 19th, Stan (lighter head) was 62.4 grams / Peter was 59.4 grams:

Peter again for reference (from 1-4) :

One other thing I didn't note is diet. I started off using a small can of tortoise food from petco (see 2 photos above) and store bought greens (primarily escarole and endive). After about 2 weeks of that I added mazuri to the mix, which they have been getting daily per the manufacturer recommendation of 3% body weight. I located a source for bales of timothy hay near me and will introduce that next week. I also plan to get seeds to grow grasses, weeds, etc for them in near future.

 

[TopNotchBoas]

And a short video I did on the same day I took the outdoor photos:

 

[leopard777]

nice video, inquisitive minds

 

[Tom]

It sounds like you've already got some good diet ideas, but I thought I throw this in just to give you even more ideas about feeding. There is a list after the fifth paragraph with all sorts of food suggestions.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

 

[TopNotchBoas]

Thanks Tom.

I actually have that list copy/pasted into my sulcata growth tracking spreadsheet . Going forward my primary focus will be Introducing more grasses and weeds into their diet. They didn't seem too interested in grasses/weeds from my yard and, as a new tortoise keeper, I wanted to make sure my habitat was going to work before I showed any 'tough love' and reduced their food intake. While mazuri + store greens sure are convenient and easy, I'd like them to have a more diversified and natural diet.

The two tortoises I got from Andy have not grown much in the 2 weeks I've had them (just a few grams) - possibly because they don't seem to be into the mazuri. My first two gobbled it all up from the first time I introduced it. They seem to sprint towards it whenever I feed it to them. I'm hoping the two from Andy lack of weight gain is attributed to the disinterest in mazuri and not some sort of issue incorporating into the group. I think it's probably a bit early to start worrying - and I understand these guys can be widely varied individual to individual - but I am keeping a close eye on it.

 

[Nathan.]

The two you got from andy look dry compared to the two you already had. I got my sulcata from a breeder that raised him dry and at first his weight gains were very small as you're experiencing. After keeping him properly hydrated though his weight slowly started increasing more quickly. The past two weeks his weight gain was right around ten grams each. I'm new to all of this as well but, it seems it might be possible that being started dry stunts their growth for a bit.

 

[Tom]

The two you got from andy look dry compared to the two you already had. I got my sulcata from a breeder that raised him dry and at first his weight gains were very small as you're experiencing. After keeping him properly hydrated though his weight slowly started increasing more quickly. The past two weeks his weight gain was right around ten grams each. I'm new to all of this as well but, it seems it might be possible that being started dry stunts their growth for a bit.

I've done numerous experiments on this over the years. The drier they are started the slower they grow. That is a fact.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

No offense...but... forget the sulcata pics, I want more pics of the Boas and that Boa room!!

Seriously, can you head over to the other pet section and give us lots of info and pics about your snake project?!

Ok, ok, good job with the Sulcatas, too

 

[Tom]

The two tortoises I got from Andy have not grown much in the 2 weeks I've had them (just a few grams)...

Andy is a great guy. Very nice person. He and I share different philosophies about how best to start babies. I prefer to keep them mostly indoors to simulate the African rainy season. Andy prefers to keep them outdoors all day in the hot dry AZ air. I've seen his baby enclosures and they are as well designed as any I've seen. Raising them outside just is not good for the babies and your pics clearly demonstrate this. In time, with your care routine, they will smooth out and look fantastic.

 

[TopNotchBoas]

No offense...but... forget the sulcata pics, I want more pics of the Boas and that Boa room!!

I've been keeping/breeding boas since 2003. Both BCI and BCC. Pure locality lines and morphs/mutations. I love everything boa! Tortoises too now .
I'll get up more pics and info in the other pets section in the near future!

Andy is a great guy. Very nice person. He and I share different philosophies about how best to start babies. I prefer to keep them mostly indoors to simulate the African rainy season. Andy prefers to keep them outdoors all day in the hot dry AZ air. I've seen his baby enclosures and they are as well designed as any I've seen. Raising them outside just is not good for the babies and your pics clearly demonstrate this. In time, with your care routine, they will smooth out and look fantastic.

I can't say enough great things about Andy. Outstanding individual with stellar animals. And, like our friend Tom here, an obvious asset to the tortoise community.

While it's clear enough that sulcatas are hardy animals that can thrive in multiple environments, I do believe the evidence indicates that starting them with high humidity helps them thrive best.