Looking for a little advice (the female hides)

Lori Mc

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
11
Location (City and/or State)
new york
We just introduced a male sulcata (5 years old) into our female (7 years old) sulcata's indoor enclosure 3 days ago. The first day they would eat and walk around and sniff each other. Now on day 3 my female stays in the cooler corner and wont eat...while the smaller male eats and stays under the heat most of the day. I did change the bedding before we put the new one in. Any suggestions or advice for this new multiple tort owner? We're in New York. so they will be inside until April/May. Thanks
 

G-stars

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2014
Messages
1,889
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Hello and welcome.

Regarding your questions. Have you noticed any dominance issues? Never really a good idea to keep sulcatas in pairs. I highly doubt it's the substrate that has caused your female to be acting different.
 

Yellow Turtle01

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
7,710
Location (City and/or State)
OH, USA
Welcome!
Most unfortunately, ms girly tort is getting bullied. :( Tortoises do not need friends, and they most certainly do not like them! They are very solitary creatures, and pairing them up can create tension and bullying, causing one to stress out and potentially get ill. In the wild, most tortoise interact only to mate and over territorial disputes! :(
I would separate again ASAP! You'll probably start to notice her being more active on her own.
Carehsheet, if you don't have one-
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
:D
 

Lori Mc

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
11
Location (City and/or State)
new york
Have you noticed any dominance issues? Never really a good idea to keep sulcatas in pairs. I highly doubt it's the substrate that has caused your female to be acting different.
Have you noticed any dominance issues? Never really a good idea to keep sulcatas in pairs. I highly doubt it's the substrate that has caused your female to be acting different.


No Dominance issues and she was the one that was following the new one around
 

dmmj

The member formerly known as captain awesome
10 Year Member!
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
19,695
Location (City and/or State)
CA
They should be separated, the male ( naturally), is bullying, size matters not. If they were mine, I would def. separate.
 

Lori Mc

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
11
Location (City and/or State)
new york
Welcome!
Most unfortunately, ms girly tort is getting bullied. :( Tortoises do not need friends, and they most certainly do not like them! They are very solitary creatures, and pairing them up can create tension and bullying, causing one to stress out and potentially get ill. In the wild, most tortoise interact only to mate and over territorial disputes! :(
I would separate again ASAP! You'll probably start to notice her being more active on her own.
Carehsheet, if you don't have one-
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
:D
Thank you very much...we did put up a partition today and separated them. I didn't notice any bulling. just them smelling each other and walking away..
 

Yellow Turtle01

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
7,710
Location (City and/or State)
OH, USA
Thank you very much...we did put up a partition today and separated them. I didn't notice any bulling. just them smelling each other and walking away..
You may never notice... :( It just happens.
Your welcome! She'll probably start to perk up soon :D
 

Lori Mc

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
11
Location (City and/or State)
new york
They should be separated, the male ( naturally), is bullying, size matters not. If they were mine, I would def. separate.
Did separate them this afternoon.. and did not notice any bulling in the last 3 days but will keep them separated for the winter and hopefully they will be ok together in their huge outdoor enclosure.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
They should never be housed in pairs. That usually ends in disaster in one way or another.

You most certainly do have dominance issues, whether you recognize them or not. Why do you think your female is trying to hide? Anytime two tortoises are put together, there are dominance issues.

The way to introduce them is by putting them together, along with two or more other females, in a very large outdoor enclosure in the warmer months.

Your female is not going fare well in your current situation. I recommend separating them ASAP.

Next thing, are you sure you have a male and female? I mean you no insult, but a large percentage of people get this wrong.

Last question: Why do you want 100 sulcata babies per year? Each female can produce that many. If you keep them in the better ratio of at least 3 females per male, you will be getting 100 babies per female, or 300 babies per year. Do you have the contacts to move that sort of inventory? Are you okay with selling them wholesale? Are you ready to devote, and I mean really devote, 9 or more months a year to raising and caring for nest after nest after nest of babies? Have you thought this through?
 

Lori Mc

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
11
Location (City and/or State)
new york
Just wondering how big is their enclosure?
Just wondering how big is their enclosure?
indoor enclosure is the size of a king size bed.... now that we put the partition up they both have about the size of a twin size bed.
the outdoor enclosure is 75'x50' do you think we might have to separate them when they get outside too?
 

Lori Mc

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
11
Location (City and/or State)
new york
They should never be housed in pairs. That usually ends in disaster in one way or another.

You most certainly do have dominance issues, whether you recognize them or not. Why do you think your female is trying to hide? Anytime two tortoises are put together, there are dominance issues.

The way to introduce them is by putting them together, along with two or more other females, in a very large outdoor enclosure in the warmer months.

Your female is not going fare well in your current situation. I recommend separating them ASAP.

Next thing, are you sure you have a male and female? I mean you no insult, but a large percentage of people get this wrong.

Last question: Why do you want 100 sulcata babies per year? Each female can produce that many. If you keep them in the better ratio of at least 3 females per male, you will be getting 100 babies per female, or 300 babies per year. Do you have the contacts to move that sort of inventory? Are you okay with selling them wholesale? Are you ready to devote, and I mean really devote, 9 or more months a year to raising and caring for nest after nest after nest of babies? Have you thought this through?

that's a scary thought..... and yes,,,i have a male and female. will start working on the outdoor enclosure as soon as the snow melts. thanks tom
 

Lori Mc

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
11
Location (City and/or State)
new york
Sometimes we don't see it being displayed. Check her for any signs of aggression like bite marks around the hind legs. I would separate them until you figure out what is causing her to act differently.
thank you.... just checked and no visible marks
 

Lori Mc

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
11
Location (City and/or State)
new york
Hi Lori and welcome! I know you stated ages, but what size are they? How is the female now that she is once more by herself?
Hi Jacque......thanks for the warm welcome.. Lulu is perking up tonight walking around and going to her food she's 12 lbs and the new male is 8 1/2 lbs. she keeps walking up and down the partition probably wondering what we did with her room mate. Always read a lot of care sheets but never once saw anything about having multiple torts fighting. I guess I was in the wrong place. Well moving forward they will be kept apart.
 

johnsonnboswell

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
2,238
Bullying is not always fighting or outward aggression. Dominance doesn't leave marks (except when it does.) It's too easy to see the results of bullying but ascribe it to a different cause. When one is basking & the other is hiding, thats the result of what we call it bullying. The submissive one can't get away to get warmth & light & food and gets stressed and ill & can die.
 

Jacqui

Wanna be raiser of Lemon Drop tortoises
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
39,941
Location (City and/or State)
A Land Far Away...
Hi Jacque......thanks for the warm welcome.. Lulu is perking up tonight walking around and going to her food she's 12 lbs and the new male is 8 1/2 lbs. she keeps walking up and down the partition probably wondering what we did with her room mate. Always read a lot of care sheets but never once saw anything about having multiple torts fighting. I guess I was in the wrong place. Well moving forward they will be kept apart.
Some times you can keep two together, but some species have more troubles with doing that (ie sulcatas and Russians are well known for it). It helps if they were raised together, the same size and sex, have a large enclosure with lots of visual sight barriers. It happens because they have the one on one face offs all the time. Which is why if you add a third (or more) tortoise into the mix it normally smooths out the problem. Of course, only if it's two females to one male is that normally true.

Glad it was a pretty easy fix to separate them. :) How long have you had your female? I'd love to see her... and him too. :)
 

Lori Mc

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
11
Location (City and/or State)
new york
Some times you can keep two together, but some species have more troubles with doing that (ie sulcatas and Russians are well known for it). It helps if they were raised together, the same size and sex, have a large enclosure with lots of visual sight barriers. It happens because they have the one on one face offs all the time. Which is why if you add a third (or more) tortoise into the mix it normally smooths out the problem. Of course, only if it's two females to one male is that normally true.

Glad it was a pretty easy fix to separate them. :) How long have you had your female? I'd love to see her... and him too. :)
we've had our Lulu for 5 years.... she was given to us by a friends family member who had a house fire. How she survived, I'm not really sure but she wasn't a very healthy tort.( underweight, very small , an infection. low on vitamin D & A, her shell was a mess) I could go on and on........I took her to her vet and he did what he did...... when I called the following spring to make a well visit appt. he was shocked that she survived the winter. needless to say this past summer she doubled her size from 5.3 pounds to almost 11 lbs. She just loves the outdoor enclosure and this spring we will be modifying it to accommodating it to our new addition..... not sure if I want to get another female.... babies are great, but not for me. lol and my luck, I would end up with a few hundred.
 
Top