Live naked people

[Kapidolo Farms]

Richard, I guess d.i.c.k confused TFO and it **** his name.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

http://www.tortoiselibrary.com/

At the bottom of the webpage for Tortoise forum are other associated pages. The Tortoise Library is a great resource. Just saying'.

 

[Tom C]

he had one adult male from Bartlett. I didn't want to confuse the matter because he uses multiple males to breed. the babies from his female definitely look different and are distinctive.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

he had one adult male from Bartlett. I didn't want to confuse the matter because he uses multiple males to breed. the babies from his female definitely look different and are distinctive.

With names this would read "Chris R. has one adult male from R. Bartlett. I didn't want to confuse the matter because Chris R. has multiple males in his group. The babies from R. Bartlett female defiantly look different and are distinct". Did I get that right?

Elsewhere I have understood that different females from Chris R.'s group produce distinct babies as well.

here's a cool short concept presentation http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/bottlenecks_01

I appreciate all the insight and conversation Tom C. it is highly valued.

 

[Tom C]

chris' limburg females has babies that all look distinct. he does not have a bartlett female. you can kinda tell which limburg line female laid the eggs by looking at the hatchlings. i was able to look through about 35 babies from 5 clutches when i dropped by his place the other day. look at the sunning picts. i posted. 4 babies came from one female, 2 from another, and lastly 2 from his last laying limburg female. i didn't even have to dot most of the babies cuz' they were so distinctive looking.

 

[Yvonne G]

@Will - maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I just put Darth's pit tag # for a Google search and it says, "No results found for pit tag #981020011929499."

Maybe I shouldn't have used the # sign?

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

I'll try too. He is on two registries here and Facebook. FWIW maybe if when other people post pit tag numbers we might find some better route.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

I am not sure if the # symbol was an issue or it just takes time for the data to be placed in the many server farms for google, or what else may be a factor.

I'm happy to report that just the digits brought the first hit up in .035 seconds and it was the digits here in tortoise forum.

I hope if other folks have PIT tagged animal you will post them in that registry thread. I bought a scanner for $150, and it is universal. It even reads the somewhat cryptic tags used in my work place. they are for research not pets, and the scanner will read them. I think most vets routinely scan most animals that come into their practice.

Here is another lookup page that did not provide a result, it said some registries could not be accessed at that time, to please try again later. http://www.petmicrochiplookup.org/ which is the point to do it here.

That tag for Darth was placed by the vet who fixed his hip, so that tag number is in two AHAA searchable data bases, one that is for any tag that comes from MERCK, the tag registry I used and posted about and here on TFO. The TFO cite comes up first in the searches each time.

So, I'd suggest that TFO is more accessible, and well, who better to follow-up than a consortium of 30,000 chelonian people?

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

https://academic.oup.com/bioscience...483/PIT-Tagging-Simple-Technology-at-Its-Best

This is a "scholarly" article debating PIT tag use for many purposes.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

I'll drop this here .. .. ..

@Anyfoot @cdmay This is her thesis that begat the papers published elsewhere.

 

[Anyfoot]

I'll drop this here .. .. ..

@Anyfoot @cdmay This is her thesis that begat the papers published elsewhere.

Brilliant that Will. Thank you.

 

[cdmay]

I'll drop this here .. .. ..

@Anyfoot @cdmay This is her thesis that begat the papers published elsewhere.

Yes, that's the one.
Pretty sure she wasn't naked most of the time.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

#2 @cdmay

na·ked
ˈnākid/
adjective

1. 1.
   (of a person or part of the body) without clothes.
   "he'd never seen a naked woman before"
   synonyms: nude, bare, in the nude, stark naked, having nothing on, stripped, unclothed,undressed.
2. 2.
   (of something such as feelings or behavior) undisguised; blatant.
   "naked, unprovoked aggression"
   synonyms: undisguised, plain, unadorned, unvarnished, unqualified, stark, bald;
   overt, obvious,open, patent, evident, apparent, manifest, unmistakable, blatant
   "the naked truth"

 

[Yvonne G]

So, let me get this straight.

I buy a Mep and realize it has a pit tag (however). So I go to my friend Google and put in the pit tag number and the "pit tag registry" on the forum comes up. If I bother to scroll down and find my pit tag number, I am able to find out that "Darth" is the sire and he also has a pit tag, and that "Medea" is the dam, who is not tagged. What if I also wanted to know hatch date, etc. Does this tag number give me any other locations to do more research on this animal I just bought?

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

So, let me get this straight.

I buy a Mep and realize it has a pit tag (however). So I go to my friend Google and put in the pit tag number and the "pit tag registry" on the forum comes up. If I bother to scroll down and find my pit tag number, I am able to find out that "Darth" is the sire and he also has a pit tag, and that "Medea" is the dam, who is not tagged. What if I also wanted to know hatch date, etc. Does this tag number give me any other locations to do more research on this animal I just bought?

Well I believe when/if someone is curious about such they will see that some guy named "will" posted that, and they can ask him if they want to. The hatch date, egg laying as it occurred, and how they were incubated is all here, though not so easy to find. In that sense TFO exceeds what is in an actual IUCN/AZA studbook. In AZA studbooks there is no nothing more than Dame Sire and Hatch date, no egg laying date or how they were incubated.

I know that flippers will flip, no stopping that, and many are pretty open about what they are doing. But there are many people who sell more than they have. I've purchased more than a few animals that were "studbooked" and yet the person could not provide a studbook number that reconciles with the studbook.

Recently there was some Manouria for sale, yet no one could say where they were bred. I'd like to hook Phae up with a F1 male on KNOWN parents. not some random high priced male that can't be accounted for. Yeah I'm talking about @Baoh , I mean WTF dude? You seek a premium price and you have a random captive bred somewhat rare-ish animal.

Think about the guy in Tx that bought the integrades and then flipped them as one subspecies or another (as I have been told). Those people down stream have no idea. The offspring from 2012 were sold and flipped months later, those people have no clue.

I think it is more scrutable to make the history knowable.

Look at all the hype, paranoia, and false dogma (is that redundant?) associated with the SA leopard tortoise phenotype. I'm tired of all that crap. This is what I can do about it.

 

[Anyfoot]

Well I believe when/if someone is curious about such they will see that some guy named "will" posted that, and they can ask him if they want to. The hatch date, egg laying as it occurred, and how they were incubated is all here, though not so easy to find. In that sense TFO exceeds what is in an actual IUCN/AZA studbook. In AZA studbooks there is no nothing more than Dame Sire and Hatch date, no egg laying date or how they were incubated.

I know that flippers will flip, no stopping that, and many are pretty open about what they are doing. But there are many people who sell more than they have. I've purchased more than a few animals that were "studbooked" and yet the person could not provide a studbook number that reconciles with the studbook.

Recently there was some Manouria for sale, yet no one could say where they were bred. I'd like to hook Phae up with a F1 male on KNOWN parents. not some random high priced male that can't be accounted for. Yeah I'm talking about @Baoh , I mean WTF dude? You seek a premium price and you have a random captive bred somewhat rare-ish animal.

Think about the guy in Tx that bought the integrades and then flipped them as one subspecies or another (as I have been told). Those people down stream have no idea. The offspring from 2012 were sold and flipped months later, those people have no clue.

I think it is more scrutable to make the history knowable.

Look at all the hype, paranoia, and false dogma (is that redundant?) associated with the SA leopard tortoise phenotype. I'm tired of all that crap. This is what I can do about it.

Ain't that the Naked Truth.

 

[Baoh]

Recently there was some Manouria for sale, yet no one could say where they were bred. I'd like to hook Phae up with a F1 male on KNOWN parents. not some random high priced male that can't be accounted for. Yeah I'm talking about @Baoh , I mean WTF dude? You seek a premium price and you have a random captive bred somewhat rare-ish animal.

Always fun to have other people tell me about these posts about/to me when a person making them does not simply send me an email or message me on Facebook (both of which I believe you are capable of based on historical precedent).

"no one could say where they were bred"

If you are talking about the spare male I recently sold, I gave the history of the animal to 1) anyone who messaged me as I expressly directed in the FB ad or who emailed me as I expressly directed in the Fauna ad and Kingsnake ad and 2) the buyer of that male. Not sure where "they" comes into this since that single male is not a plural in any sense. I sold a couple (plural) of other phayrei back in 2016. The buyer of those two animals received the background on those as well via email after contacting me to express interest. I sold one phayrei in 2015 before I decided to expand my colony and offered all of the information available to the buyer at the time (which is my custom). Since the buyer now has that information, it is his to keep or pass on if he ever decides to part with the animal.

"random high priced male"

Not random. It was that specific male. The price was on target to have three willing buyers lined up at the time of sale in addition to the usual series of people who like to make less serious contact. If the price had been too high, I would have had three fewer potential buyers. I have sold a male that was 2" longer (for $625 more than this animal) before (in 2014) and originally listed this recent male for $250 more than the shipped price in the ad you saw before deciding to change that to emphasize a speedier sale for the sake of freeing up the materials that form the barrier of the pen he was kept in. If it makes you feel better for some reason, I could not have mathematically profited off of him unless I had sold him for the pair's purchase price and I certainly did not do that. I have no problem with the price. If I had females and no male and needed a male to avoid missing reproductive seasons, I would pay more than I sold the male in 2014 or the male in 2017 for. Demand was adequate. I could sell two more phayrei males for the same amount as the recent one right now and another two fellows I know are in need of emys males for their projects. The correct price is what sells - even if a seller has to be patient to find the correct buyer.

I have been told you have some kind of complaint regarding me selling him in the first place. Maybe you think I should feel obligated to keep him or something. I did not buy him for the sake of selling him. I also did not buy him for the sake of keeping him. This situation was not a dichotomous set of options when it comes to motivations for sale. I bought him because he was an unavoidable co-purchase with the purchase of a female that I wanted to add to my project. Both animals came to me needing some work. I improved the breadth of the male's dietary range, cleaned out his gut, and spent time adjusting him to a more interactive life. To that end, he would prefer my company (complete with neck rubs and crawling into my lap to sit there for them) to food and he gained several pounds of lean body mass between the time I brought him to my property and the time I took him for transfer to his new home further South. The people meeting with me to pick him up for the sake of the buyer were treated to just how friendly he is and expressed being pleased with him. The female took a lot more work due to the damage she had from before she was handed over to me, but she is doing extremely well. She might even nest this year if I am lucky. Her origin is completely different from his. I have five distinct bloodlines in my colony at the least (likely more, but I call all of my TSA animals one single line and I call all of my TC animals another single line since I was not given further subdivision on their lineages; I could actually have as many as nine distinct lines, but I cannot say for sure and therefore refer to some groups as a single line as a result) and I avoid what overlap I can. I do not recall a mandate I am subject to that means I have to keep a spare male because someone else wants me to.

Sadly, one of the intermediate owners made up (and told) multiple differing stories about the animal, but - luckily for me - my network allowed me to make contact with an owner before that owner (and who is known for the accuracy of his information integrity maintenance; he generally keeps to himself because people hound him to sell his females to them when he has no such interest in selling, so I appreciate that he and I could discuss this). What was lost was found and all was well. On this site, there is a person talking about another person's phayrei and misstating the origins of that person's animals. I feel bad seeing that, but that sort of thing happens frequently. I let the owner know and he can make waves or not. Probably not.

As mentioned, an email or a message as the respective ads indicated would have allowed anyone with interest to receive the actual history of the animal back when it was for sale. Since it was sold, there is no longer a need for that from me unless the buyer asks it of me again.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

I did ask, the man who sold it to you was forthcoming with as much history as he knew, which was still absent the actual source. That you held fast at your price, noting such as the case on a couple of responses toward no actual question regarding price affords the contemplation it is a premium price. That in itself is no worry. That the breeder was not known or posted makes it random.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

On another note regarding posting PIT tag numbers here. I don't know Josh, never met him, but he has built a interweb presence that has stood many test of such on the interweb and it still stands. I'd like to see this venue persist. It persists based on revenue. At some point I may be of a mind to buy ad space, in the intervening time I think posting the PIT tag numbers ads value and more clicks, for more $ to those who do buy ad space here. Yeah for TFO!

 

[Baoh]

I did ask, the man who sold it to you was forthcoming with as much history as he knew, which was still absent the actual source. That you held fast at your price, noting such as the case on a couple of responses toward no actual question regarding price affords the contemplation it is a premium price. That in itself is no worry. That the breeder was not known or posted makes it random.

I have multiple screen shots of that seller's words. I am sure he was very "forthcoming" with a version of its background. The screen shots include three different versions of its background (according to that person) and then there was a fourth version (according to that person) that was stated to me in person. Different stories at different times for different people from the same individual. For the same tortoise. To get the reality of its background, I had to go to a source of information prior to the person who I got the animal from. I also confirmed the background of the female with a seller prior to the seller I bought her from. There were no major inconsistencies with the retelling of the background of the female. One of the four versions given for the male is correct after getting confirmation via communicating with a prior owner. That makes the other three versions, since all four versions differed, not truthful. The correct version was not posted publicly by a previous seller, but I hinted at the correct version in one of my replies to someone else. While I privately have references who can testify to the penchant for storytelling involved with one of these sources of information/misinformation, I am not keen on stirring anything needlessly. The breeder was known at the time of the ad's placement. The animal was specific in its origin and therefore not random. The animal of topic is in an excellent home with an even better subdivision of climate than mine here, the buyer and his facilitating friends have the genuine history, I have received the money I expected for the animal for a semi-local transaction, I met some nice people, and I was able to reclaim the barrier panels allocated for his pen to clean and apply to another quarantine area for a friend's animals down the road.

Not accepting just any offer from any person does not make it a premium price. I do not mind when others sell their own animals for less if they like, as it is their prerogative. Kind of like how people who sometimes like to reach out and say they will "give it a good home for free if you cannot find a buyer for it" do not make the values of animals like elegans, phayrei, ivory sulcata, hypo carbonaria, and more suddenly become zero because some of the people want something for zero dollars. I see it as being a little further up the spectrum as those people who post wanted ads to profess a willingness to adopt free radiata or gigantea. If you or anyone else would like to sell animals for less, I think you/he/she have/has every right to do so. Same for if you/he/she would like to sell animals for more. The completion of sales will determine what is tenable as far as pricing goes.

Unless there is something warranting further response on the matter (which could have been done directly in the first place), I am happy to return you to the normal course of your thread so as not to further distract from it.