"let's Play Barbie"

Kapidolo Farms

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Tom said:
Oh, I am inspired by this Will. I am going to name them all, hang signs over the doors of their humid hides with their names, and I am now on the hunt for plastic palm trees and lawn ornaments! I'll bet if I trim the legs down, I could fit one of those pink flamingoes in my closed chamber. Since flamingoes occur in Africa, it would be a totally natural addition for my Geochelone pardalis pardalis enclosure!

That works, a 4 x 8 foot print enclosure is not in any way shape or form a temporary enclosure for people who use any enclosed chamber to push optimal conditions to sell their animals or get them outside. There are Flamingoes in America too. Then your three spot per scute S.
(G.) p. p. pardalis will have a great start in life.


Grandpa Turtle 144 said:
Well I gess I got a real problem cause I'm not a tort keeper or a tort pet keeper
I think my torts are great " people keepers"
Cause I just enjoy the torts

Now there is a perspective I can find based in reality.


wellington said:
I guess I'd rather see the "Barbie" style enclosures then those that are plain totes with no hope for a yard because they live in an apartment and have no yard to ever build their torts an outdoor enclosure. In a way, kinda the pot calling the kettle black. At least some of these "Barbie" enclosures have a chance of some day being outdoors or even a bigger enclosure, that's not just a tote.

The "enclosure" is not Barbie style Barb, the keeper is. And GPtort144 put the best possible spin on it, that could move what I was putting forth, more forward.


Mgridgaway said:
EricIvins said:
This is the difference between a "Pet" Tortoise owner, and a Tortoise keeper. A pet owner is more inclined to go to the local Petco and buy something flashy but more or less impractical to the care of the animal, versus a Tortoise keeper who shops at Home Depot looking for industrial use and practicality.

I think people can relate this to the Fish hobby more so than Reptiles. A true Fish keeper will have live rock, coral, plants, etc versus a pet owner who has a bubble wand and a resin Spongebob figurine. The people that have been around the block know what you are trying to convey...

To be fair, I consider myself a pet owner, not a tortoise keeper, AND I built my own table exclusively from Home Depot... Personally, I like the outside of my enclosure to look nice, especially since it takes up so much space. But the inside is entirely utilitarian. The only cute things in there are the torts.

Not entirely sure why my original thread mushroomed into this discussion, but ok.

Well, that is why I made the concept it's own thread, no point in mixing more the facts of the taxonomy as they are mixed with marketing and the number of spots in a scute with the nature of being an animal keeper.

I make the exteriors look good for my Mom, she looks at the enclosures and the animals as much as I do during visits. However my wife is a practical woman beyond compare, and laments the time to make the outside look nice versus the time to care for the inhabitants, so I don't fool with exterior aesthetics much nay more. Mom's OK with that.
 

wellington

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Well, if it's the keeper that's a Barbie, then I want to be a Barbie. I am half way there with the name. Now if I had the shape:p :D
I want to see Toms pink flamingos. I like gramps take on it too:)
 

Kapidolo Farms

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I'm really glad for all the varying POV's.

I guess if inside versus outside was the point, most of the pet/animal industry would die in a heartbeat, all those tropical freshwater fish would not fare well outside, at all, let alone year round, and marine fish, most birds, small mammals etc, non would be pets, livestock, what have you. I don't see this as an inside outside debate at all as that seems to be the semi tangential direction with the development of thought in the thread.

Pet versus another label might be more a definition based on how you get your $$ in life, than what you do for husbandry. So I get it that some folks in the business of tortoises will have a pointed idea of pet versus 'livestock' but the care itself may not really hinge on that divide. I don't call my tortoises pets. I call my cat a pet. I do consider the tortoises wild animals in captivity, while a house cat can go feral, it is not a 'wild animal'. I've made my $$ with both domestic and wild animals as zookeeper, private breeder, lab tech, pet shop employee, farm laborer, field worker (in-situ conservation), and many time as a volunteer.

So, again, GPtort144 has really emphasized the point much better and beyond my very long rambling. You got some deep wisdom.
 

AlishaT

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I am someone who avoids confrontation at any cost, really when a waiter brings me the wrong plate I just eat it as a way of keeping the peace. My point here is that I have to really feel strongly about an issue to actually put in my two cents. Also, I can't find my glasses if I have some huge typo's here please don't judge me. Ok, here it is. Just like everyone else here has stated I also get it with the "lets play Barbie" mentality. People get a pet and make this really fun little world only to plop the little creature in and expect to get it out and "play Barbie" with it. That is wrong and I for sure would never condone someone buying a tortoise thinking of it only in the short term. These "pets" might very possibly out live their owners and then what? Who takes care of it? But placing judgement on an owner for dressing up the pet or their habitat because they enjoy it just isn't fair. I think that as long as the safety and wellbeing are intact then doesn't all the rest benefit the animal due to the fact that they are being enjoyed and loved and paid attention to? So what if someone is taking their little dog everywhere and getting it's nails done? Not the dog who is being loved and cared for by an owner who cares enough to include them in their lives. Again I say this is contigent that the safty of the animal is the first consideration. Same, in my oppinion, goes for the tortoise who has in his little world a bobble head or even a little lego decor as my son has placed in our torts habitat because he wanted to make something nice for him. I made sure it was safe. Walter can't knock it over or use it to climb out or tip himself. Please tell me, whats the harm in my son paying enough attention and enough love to his pet when maybe it's not the "natural habitat"? Would it be better for some very clever and well informed owner to have a true to life replica, and that's all it is unless you are planning to move to where the species originated, and then lose interest and in the end neglect it? For those who choose to create a natural environment and love the creature thats great and there is nothing wrong with that but my feeling is, again so long as their needs are met, that their is no reason why an attentive owner spending time decorating and having fun with their world. So there, I got it off my chest and now I can go back to watching cats stealing dogs beds on Wimp. Can't we all just play nice?
 

wiccan_chicken

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This is the difference between a "Pet" Tortoise owner, and a Tortoise keeper. A pet owner is more inclined to go to the local Petco and buy something flashy but more or less impractical to the care of the animal, versus a Tortoise keeper who shops at Home Depot looking for industrial use and practicality.

I think people can relate this to the Fish hobby more so than Reptiles. A true Fish keeper will have live rock, coral, plants, etc versus a pet owner who has a bubble wand and a resin Spongebob figurine. The people that have been around the block know what you are trying to convey...


Agreed
 

emysbreeder

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The Elitist in the constant pursuit of conflict. Tables are functional as temps are better than on the floor. Considering what can happen to wild turtles/torts a table full of plastic toy's beats be eaten up by a raccoon, run over by a car or made into some voo-doo meds after being butchered alive. Take care, tune out stupid people, have fun, make more. emysbreeder
 

Drebbycakes

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I guess this might be a bit hard core for a newbie to involve herself with but here I go anyway!~
In my professional non-professional opinion it's not that bad to have non-toxic, anti-harmful yet totally useless things in your enclosure. Not everything in the wild is useful to an animal and they have seemed to do mighty fine thus far. In fact if animals do happen upon things such as abandoned Barbie houses in the wild they rejoice in the saved calories. It's all about how you view the sprit of the item I a sure though. Obviously not everyone who buys an animal takes care of it properly which is more than a shame but making a habitat less ugly isn't a sin in itself. Some people just like pretty things but they aren't going to abandon their tort. just because it doesn't match the curtains.
 

Alaskamike

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What an interesting and potentially emotional discussion. As an animal / nature lover, I grew up in the woods, not in front of a TV or computer screen, and learned about nature’s beauty and verity first hand. In my undergraduate years I tried working in several pet stores but found myself so upset and even angry, or in an argument, with the owner that I had to quit. I too remember all too well the poor little red ears, 100’ds in a tank, sold for pocket change with a kidney shaped plastic dish. Often the information on their care was non-existent or just plain wrong. And these little guys were not the only animals so mistreated.
Go into any pet store today and ask a clerk how to care for almost any reptile and you will find as many answers (mostly wrong) as you find clerks. It has always be thus…
However, the assumption that personifying a pet (or their environment) leads to eventual boredom or mistreatment might be a bit misplaced.
My inclination with my animals is as a naturalist. My environments tend to be as close to what the animal would experience in its natural habitat as I can possibly make it. That makes me happy, I think it makes my animals happy (see I personify too :) and healthy.
But the OP did hit a nerve with me. And that is the use of an animal to entertain us in ways that are totally unnatural to the animal. They don’t wear hats, ride little bicycles, jump through rings of fire, or dance in nature. Going to a circus has been impossible for me since I was 12 (apparently screaming at a lion tamer “I’ll kick your ***” when he cracked a whip on his cat doesn’t encourage parents to take you again.
To me what is important in animal care is basic and in this information age fairly simple to obtain
  • Appropriate food, light, shelter, heat, water, stimulation, room/space, protection
  • Interactions with us humans – and other animals, that dos no harm and does not overstress the animal
If these basics are observed, little else will matter – including dressing up their environment with funny signs, plastic flamingoes (long as they don’t eat them J ) or anything else. Most Tort Tables I’ve seen are very well thought out and spacious. Of course, some are not.
But the OP’s original point is valid. Animals are not toys. They do entertain us, but it is not their intention or purpose for existence. And we should be the advocate for humane and appropriate care as fellow creatures sharing this planet.
 
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