Leopard tortoise housing.

[David Harmon]

Hey just a update,

Right so far my vivarium temperatures seem settled at the following temps now.

Heating.
Basking spot 32c
Ambient temp 28c
Hides 24c
Cool area 24c-27c
Humidity 70%
Lighting UVB 14 hours arcadia 42" 10%+ strip but thinking of changed to MVB.

Eating
Kale, grass, dandelions, spring greens, readigrass with flower mix, and as a treat mazuri once a week.

Bath them each day for 20 mins in lukewarm water which they enjoy and seem relaxed, they go to the toilet in this.

Only 1 issue which is vey small i hope, whilst one is fully active and is wake the other one has its eyes closed a lot till you move or bath then its ok, this is most days. Is it normal?

Any information on anything i could have wrong please feel free to advise.

 

[Gabriel Mattei]

@David Harmon
Everything seems ok but the basking spots need to be a bit higher at about 34c and the warm side to 30-32c because of the humidity it's important to have the basking spots temperatures at 34c. When one of my tortoises has his eyes closed it's mostly because he scratched his eye on some hey or something but it's only one eye and it goes away when i put cream on it. Your leopard tortoise could be closing his eyes with something to do with lighting can you send us pics of his enclosure. The best thing to do would be to take a visit to the vet. Sometimes it could be an infection and you will have to give him antibiotics droplets.
Good luck!!!!!!

 

[David Harmon]

@David Harmon
Everything seems ok but the basking spots need to be a bit higher at about 34c and the warm side to 30-32c because of the humidity it's important to have the basking spots temperatures at 34c. When one of my tortoises has his eyes closed it's mostly because he scratched his eye on some hey or something but it's only one eye and it goes away when i put cream on it. Your leopard tortoise could be closing his eyes with something to do with lighting can you send us pics of his enclosure. The best thing to do would be to take a visit to the vet. Sometimes it could be an infection and you will have to give him antibiotics droplets.
Good luck!!!!!!

Ok thanks, I was thinking of changing the lighting to MVB, the tortoise is ok just when he has the bath and moved his eyes are fully open and clear. I will increase the heating asap, also I use coco coir and orchid bark which they like.

David.

 

[wellington]

How old are your leopards? Does the one that eyes are closed a lot, eat well and roam around the enclosure or just seem to hide in a corner? Does the other one seem to always been behind the other, like when sleeping, is one always in the corner while the other is right behind it?

 

[David Harmon]

How old are your leopards? Does the one that eyes are closed a lot, eat well and roam around the enclosure or just seem to hide in a corner? Does the other one seem to always been behind the other, like when sleeping, is one always in the corner while the other is right behind it?

The leopards are 6 month old, the one with the eyes closed eats well and roams around, there's two hides so they both have one each which they both use but never are in them together. They both eat well and roam, but one with the eyes closed is probably the quietest out of the two as always seems to want to hide but once moved it goes on a roam but they both seem to hide.
Any ideas?

David.

 

[keepergale]

The consensus is when you raise two tortoises together you usually have a winner and a loser on your hands. The loser doesn't need to be physically beat up to fail.

 

[wellington]

The leopards are 6 month old, the one with the eyes closed eats well and roams around, there's two hides so they both have one each which they both use but never are in them together. They both eat well and roam, but one with the eyes closed is probably the quietest out of the two as always seems to want to hide but once moved it goes on a roam but they both seem to hide.
Any ideas?

David.

Six months is still young, and young ones do sleep a lot. Maybe try to seperate them for a day or so and see if the one withs its eyes closed a lot does better. Otherwise, warm soaks everyday and try to see if you can see anything in its eyes. Maybe slowly and softly let a little water wash over the eys and see if that helps. Also keep an eye out for bullying, it's a possibility too.

 

[David Harmon]

Six months is still young, and young ones do sleep a lot. Maybe try to seperate them for a day or so and see if the one withs its eyes closed a lot does better. Otherwise, warm soaks everyday and try to see if you can see anything in its eyes. Maybe slowly and softly let a little water wash over the eys and see if that helps. Also keep an eye out for bullying, it's a possibility too.

 

[David Harmon]

hi, yeah thanks for the information about this, I give it warm soaks everyday but will try to wash over the eyes. As in bullying what should I look for?

 

[Yvonne G]

You don't often see the actual bullying. It could be very quiet or 'mental.' It's a good chance that the one is keeping his eyes closed so as to not be seen by the other tortoise. The stronger tortoise is telling the weaker tortoise to get out of the territory, but he can't get out, so he keeps his eyes closed and tries to stay out of the other one's way.

Even if bullying isn't going on and I'm totally off base, I would certainly separate the two. A sick or compromised tortoise needs to be alone.

 

[David Harmon]

You don't often see the actual bullying. It could be very quiet or 'mental.' It's a good chance that the one is keeping his eyes closed so as to not be seen by the other tortoise. The stronger tortoise is telling the weaker tortoise to get out of the territory, but he can't get out, so he keeps his eyes closed and tries to stay out of the other one's way.

Even if bullying isn't going on and I'm totally off base, I would certainly separate the two. A sick or compromised tortoise needs to be alone.

Hi Yvonne, ok thanks I'll take the advice onboard, they both eat together and don't challenge for the food but I will separate.

Kind regards,
David.

 

[Tom]

The consensus is when you raise two tortoises together you usually have a winner and a loser on your hands. The loser doesn't need to be physically beat up to fail.

SOOOOOOOO brilliantly worded. I am stealing this quote as often as possible!!!

 

[Tom]

I think the basking area directly under the bulbs should be closer to 36, and no part of the enclosure should ever drop below 26. I like ambient to creep up to 29-32 during each day all over the whole enclosure, in addition to the 36 degree basking area. All of this is much easier to accomplish in a closed chamber than an open one, so I think your vivarium will serve you well in this regard.

Tortoises should not be housed in pairs. Glad to hear you will be taking this advice.

 

[David Harmon]

I think the basking area directly under the bulbs should be closer to 36, and no part of the enclosure should ever drop below 26. I like ambient to creep up to 29-32 during each day all over the whole enclosure, in addition to the 36 degree basking area. All of this is much easier to accomplish in a closed chamber than an open one, so I think your vivarium will serve you well in this regard.

Tortoises should not be housed in pairs. Glad to hear you will be taking this advice.

Ok I'll increase the temperature also I see your well respected! which would be better a MVB instead of a strip UVB light, what bout nighttime temps?

 

[Tom]

Ok I'll increase the temperature also I see your well respected! which would be better a MVB instead of a strip UVB light, what bout nighttime temps?

Either can work, but MVBs are generally a more effective source of UV. The trade off is they all that electric heat is extremely desiccating to their carapaces, which is a big contributor to pyramiding. The best strategy is to get a good UV meter and measure the output of your lamps in your enclosure.

My generally favored strategy for providing the correct ambient temps, both day and night, is to use ceramic heating elements set on a thermostats.

 

[David Harmon]

Either can work, but MVBs are generally a more effective source of UV. The trade off is they all that electric heat is extremely desiccating to their carapaces, which is a big contributor to pyramiding. The best strategy is to get a good UV meter and measure the output of your lamps in your enclosure.

My generally favored strategy for providing the correct ambient temps, both day and night, is to use ceramic heating elements set on a thermostats.

Ok Tom thanks for the advice about the temps, is night time temps same all day?

 

[Tom]

Ok Tom thanks for the advice about the temps, is night time temps same all day?

I set my thermostats to never drop below 80 (26.667C) day or night. During the day the heat lamps set on timers for 12 hours warm up my enclosures to 29-33 all over. Plus I still offer the basking area of 36-37C, all day.

 

[David Harmon]

I set my thermostats to never drop below 80 (26.667C) day or night. During the day the heat lamps set on timers for 12 hours warm up my enclosures to 29-33 all over. Plus I still offer the basking area of 36-37C, all day.

Thanks tom, so do you have a CHE and a MVB then?

 

[Tom]

Thanks tom, so do you have a CHE and a MVB then?

I use CHEs on thermostats to maintain ambient day and night, but MVBs are too hot to run in most closed chambers. Instead I use 65 watt regular flood bulbs for basking, regular strip lights for light on the same timer as my basking bulbs, and then I run Arcadia tubes for UV on their own separate timer for a few hours mid day. It sounds like a lot to some people, but its really very simple if you do it one system at a time, and it all works really well for the tortoises.

 

[David Harmon]

I use CHEs on thermostats to maintain ambient day and night, but MVBs are too hot to run in most closed chambers. Instead I use 65 watt regular flood bulbs for basking, regular strip lights for light on the same timer as my basking bulbs, and then I run Arcadia tubes for UV on their own separate timer for a few hours mid day. It sounds like a lot to some people, but its really very simple if you do it one system at a time, and it all works really well for the tortoises.

Thanks Tom,

I use a Arcadia tube on a timer for 14hours would this be ok? Or should I change to the MVB