July 4th eggs

[dmmj]

So are you considering letting one nest remain in the litter, and see if they can hatch like that better? or have you considered, transplanting a nest into like a garage, or shed, and try incubating them naturally? Personally, I think it would be an experiment worth trying. I have been researching them for awhile now, I want to look into getting one sooner or later.

 

[tortadise]

Alright. I took a good amount of them and burried them. I used a 10 gallon aquarium layered the bottom with pea gravel mixed with sand. Saturated that with water. Then mixed sand and peat moss for the remainder of the aquarium. Placed them in an buried them. Hopefully this will work. The t stat I placed in the middle of the eggs so it reads what temperature the middle of the eggs are getting to. I did leave the smaller pan in the tub there in and will try to resume normal incubation with them. Hope to see some little guys in 77-82 days.

I'm sure any will ask why I used sand and pea gravel at the bottom. Well way back in the day when I built live terrariums for dart frogs we used this method to layer the soil system. It kept water/humidity in the environment without saturating the soil. I use this method with some of the arid species too. That way no wet soil remains in the enclosure but the water and humidity does. So when I see water level low in the rocks. I will simply place a tub down there and fill it up adding more moisture to the peat above.

 

[dmmj]

Is it to early to start getting excited? if it is, I think it will be a long wait, I can't imagine how you are feeling.

 

[tortadise]

Is it to early to start getting excited? if it is, I think it will be a long wait, I can't imagine how you are feeling.

Yep this is experiment number 8 or 12 maybe. Each year I place either half or a quarter of the eggs in different tubs with different substrates and whatever. So hope this works. It's what I kinda thought last year when it was not successful. So hope it works for sure.

 

[dmmj]

Yep this is experiment number 8 or 12 maybe. Each year I place either half or a quarter of the eggs in different tubs with different substrates and whatever. So hope this works. It's what I kinda thought last year when it was not successful. So hope it works for sure.

So in other words, don't get my hopes up just yet.
Ok DMMJ, take a deep breath.

 

[tortadise]

So in other words, don't get my hopes up just yet.
Ok DMMJ, take a deep breath.

Lol. You and me both. These have been super tough for sure to hatch. But I think this method should prove successful.

 

[emysbreeder]

Well congrads on your 4th. July eggs. My phayrei eggs started hatching on the 4th as they have for many years. I do care about the 4th of July, its about the freedom to do cool stuff like this. Probably not to many people doing this in Cuba. I hatch all Manouria eggs in a incubator. The substrate is vermiculite mixed a little on the dry side. (just enough that if you make a ball of it in your hand it doesnt quite stick together but almost. I know very hard to put in words) They are put in plastic containers counter sunk about 1/4 with NO Holes. The tops are lifted weekly for air exchange and removal of dead eggs (a magnet for fly's) Once a day in the last 10 days. Temps. At 84F + or -2F will produce piping in 64 days every time and with the highest hatch rate of any other temp. I make the mix on the dry side because if JUST A LITTLE TO WET they will mold and die with no chance no mater what kind of voo-doo anti-fungle junk you put on them. If too dry you get a second chance. Simply put a temp./hydrometor with the eggs and in about a week check the humidity. A wet substrate will make newly laid eggs absorb to much water and NO BABIES FOR YOU. Ad a layer of damp sphagnum moss on top of eggs. This works perfect and makes humid air not a wet substrate. One other thing before all this is when retrieving the eggs. If you catch HER laying the eggs do not touch them until the wet coating is dry. This is the cause of many eggs not hatching and with close eyeball on egg observation, you can see them deteriorate where you touch them. The fly's you are talking about are a grave cause of death in baby Manouria. I tryed the bay leaves that was brought up by a Vet at a talk I was giving. It did not work. I keep the incubators in an air conditioned cold room. I'm careful not to leave anything in the kitchen and turn into a super ***** about that and holding the door open to long. Even with all of this and more, I still get them. I used to hate the way vermiculite caked on the new babies but again with eyeball down and dirty I discovered that when it stuck to the bottom of the newly hatched baby it protected the opening from the fly's WHO NEW !!! Keeping the embryo clean until it closes will determinant whether it lives or dies as it is a direct route to the blood stream. I soak them every day until it is fully closed. I hope this helps but as far as leaving them in the nest or any other over thought methods, this is the best way. I just herd from my friends with the TSA in Burma. They left theirs in the nest, there 'in sutu' and had a O hatch. REMEMBER "Nature is cruel and in- efficient "*vm , We can do better than Nature , No predation, No males fight to the death and even if we fail and fail we can do better than just one in a lifetime as predicted in Nature for egg laying reptiles. Vic Morgan, Defying Destiny Manouria reserve, Have a happy 4th of July the rest of your life. .

Well of course it's the 4th(I could honestly care less though) but big mama the Burmese brown dug her a neat the past few weeks and plopped out 37 eggs this morning. I know I know it's against forum etiquette to not post pics. But they will be up soon. Hope for some little guys to hatch and survive this year.

 

[Yvonne G]

Vic...thank you so much for your insight. I have been keeping my vermiculite too wet (according to your success story). I also punch holes in the container.

To give credence to the 'drier' substrate idea - about 20 years ago I had 49 intergrade eggs in the incubator, and during the time they were 'cooking' I moved house, setting the incubator on the floor of an empty room, forgetting all about it for a couple of months - no water, no air exchange, totally forgot all about the eggs. When I finally remembered them, they were hatching and out of the 49, there were 19 babies! The first time I had Manouria eggs, and the best hatch rate of all the subsequent years. The eggs were totally dry, plus were being bombarded by tiny red grease ants.

So, I'm going to change my incubation technique next time I get eggs. Thanks, Vic!

 

[emysbreeder]

Vic...thank you so much for your insight. I have been keeping my vermiculite too wet (according to your success story). I also punch holes in the container.

To give credence to the 'drier' substrate idea - about 20 years ago I had 49 intergrade eggs in the incubator, and during the time they were 'cooking' I moved house, setting the incubator on the floor of an empty room, forgetting all about it for a couple of months - no water, no air exchange, totally forgot all about the eggs. When I finally remembered them, they were hatching and out of the 49, there were 19 babies! The first time I had Manouria eggs, and the best hatch rate of all the subsequent years. The eggs were totally dry, plus were being bombarded by tiny red grease ants.

So, I'm going to change my incubation technique next time I get eggs. Thanks, Vic!

Yvonne, Thanks for the kind words. Your story is so cool I might have to mention it in my talks and notes for publication. I tell everyone that after you do all this stuff I stated before, Its just a roll of the dice! I 'll tell you guy's some other cool ground level observations soon. I hope with pics, I'm hopeless with computers...but here goes

 

[emysbreeder]

 

[emysbreeder]

"The sphere has erupted, a primitive beast in born."* vm

 

[dmmj]

So far the key seems to be closed container, and dryer than normal. Makes sense maybe when they lay in the wild, the heat of the leaf litter decomposing makes it warm but maybe dryer than if laid underground like other tortoises.

 

[Yvonne G]

Vic: You're welcome to use my story. An additional fact - this was the first clutch of Manouria eggs I ever incubated, and I had them sitting on the wire that came with the incubator...no substrate.

 

[emysbreeder]

So far the key seems to be closed container, and dryer than normal. Makes sense maybe when they lay in the wild, the heat of the leaf litter decomposing makes it warm but maybe dryer than if laid underground like other tortoises.

Very good point. Vic

 

[emysbreeder]

"The sphere has erupted, a primitive beast is born."* vm

 

[tortadise]

Well yesterday I dug up some of the peat I buried them with in the tank. Felt one egg on top of the nest I made. Still nice bulged and round. Substrate was dry but can see from the sides it has moisture. I really am excited with this years attempt. I think this will work out nicely. I may actually end up taking the eggs out of the cake pan on vermiculite and place them in with the others. Those are starting to cave a little. They may have gotten too wet unfortunately. I hope they aren't ruined being a couple weeks into incubation. Good thing it's just a portion of the eggs.

 

[tortadise]

Here's the 15 I didn't bury.

 

[Yvonne G]

It's nice to have so many all at one time to experiment with, but its a real shame to lose a lot at one time. I hope you have good luck, Kelly. I know next year I'm going to keep mine a lot drier than in the past.

 

[tortadise]

It's nice to have so many all at one time to experiment with, but its a real shame to lose a lot at one time. I hope you have good luck, Kelly. I know next year I'm going to keep mine a lot drier than in the past.

Yeah I know. Last year I divided them up into 4 pans in 4 incubators, and all were full term embryonic death. I put a fogger in the incubator to elevate the humidity but hope to keep it dry but the condensation got them too wet. Sucks trying year after year. At least you have have had some live. But I really think this method is going to work.

 

[algoroth1]

Vic Morgan is often on Tortoise forum as emysbreeder. Seems it would be worth sending him a pm or two about the gnats. I know I've seen him write about it here but can't find the thread. Congrats on the eggs!
Ron