Is it okay to keep tortoises in pairs?

Sherrythetortoise

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so I have two small tortoises, one herman's male, and a spur thighed female
I'm new to tortoises world though
So I used to keep them together but then I was told that it's not ok to keep them in pairs
It may cause stress/ illness
So I never kept them together since then
But today I got them out of their houses and let them walk
Then they saw each other and they seem to miss each, he was sniffing her and following her
They seem to like each other but im not sure tho

So I wanted to know if it's ok that they can see each other from time to time or the tortoises in general seem to not like other tortoises o_O
 

Gillian M

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so I have two small tortoises, one herman's male, and a spur thighed female
I'm new to tortoises world though
So I used to keep them together but then I was told that it's not ok to keep them in pairs
It may cause stress/ illness
So I never kept them together since then
But today I got them out of their houses and let them walk
Then they saw each other and they seem to miss each, he was sniffing her and following her
They seem to like each other but im not sure tho

So I wanted to know if it's ok that they can see each other from time to time or the tortoises in general seem to not like other tortoises o_O
Welcome to the forum!

Torts do not like "company" if so I may call it. Bullying may begin.

Are you sure that one is a male and the other a female?

Please post pics of your torts asap. Give them daily soaks in warm water so as to avoid dehydration & pyramiding, particularly if you live in a country where the climate is a dry one.
 

Sherrythetortoise

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Thanks for the quick replay
Yeah I'm pretty sure they're a male and female
Not sure if have a clear pic rn
But I'll post anyways
 

Sherrythetortoise

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The first one is the male and the second is the female
 

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Gillian M

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The first one is the male and the second is the female
They are gorgeous! GOD bless.

We'd have to see the tails of your cute torts to make sure which is the female and which is the male.

(By the way, I live in Amman/Jordan. Very near). :D
 

Sherrythetortoise

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They are gorgeous! GOD bless.

We'd have to see the tails of your cute torts to make sure which is the female and which is the male.

(By the way, I live in Amman/Jordan. Very near). :D
Thanks! :)
One has a taller tail and the second has a pretty short one
 

Tidgy's Dad

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Tortoises are solitary and territorial animals, they patrol their territories and chase away intruders. They neither want nor need friends or company. Yes, they occasionally come together to mate, but this is not lovemaking this is virtually rape. In nature the female can escape a huge distance after copulation but in captivity she can't and in a pair of one male to one female she can literally end up dying thorough the males advances. Keepers will put a male with a female for a brief time only.
Groups can sometimes work, particularly with one male and several females where the attention is divided, but pairs just don't work.
She will not like his attention, he is not even the same species, which is all wrong, too.
Check out http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...together-a-lesson-learned-the-hard-way.94114/
and http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/pairs.34837/
and http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/mixing-species.139808/
There are dozens more threads on why both of these practices are dangerous.
 

Jbrez

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This topic seems to come up weekly. For me the risk is to high of messing one of the two torts up. Yeah it may work once in a while, but not very often. The people who are saying it don't work have tried it and have seen first hand what can happen. The people who say they do it also say they are equipped to separate them if need be. Or we hope they are. It's all about the torts best interest not what we think is best.
 

Ramsey

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Hi,

If I am understanding correctly, there are really two separate issues going on here.

1) keeping tortoises of the same species as pairs: generally a bad idea, but I'd still like to see more scientific based data to back up the passionate claims.

2) keeping separate species together: never a good idea to mix species. Opens the door to spread of diseases and other issues. That applies to most species, except of course, humans and dogs; they seem to kiss each other as nosium and live just fine.
 

Loritort

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Hi,

If I am understanding correctly, there are really two separate issues going on here.

1) keeping tortoises of the same species as pairs: generally a bad idea, but I'd still like to see more scientific based data to back up the passionate claims.

2) keeping separate species together: never a good idea to mix species. Opens the door to spread of diseases and other issues. That applies to most species, except of course, humans and dogs; they seem to kiss each other as nosium and live just fine.
Great post! My experience with keeping two Russians together was bad. They seemed friendly at first until the elder began biting the baby. I freaked out and removed the 'instigator ". I didn't want to come home to a seriously injured baby. Appropriate space and separate enclosures are essential. I've definitely learned a few things about tortoise keeping over the last few months. Some say it works, I say you're playing with fire.
 

Tidgy's Dad

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Hi,

If I am understanding correctly, there are really two separate issues going on here.

1) keeping tortoises of the same species as pairs: generally a bad idea, but I'd still like to see more scientific based data to back up the passionate claims.

2) keeping separate species together: never a good idea to mix species. Opens the door to spread of diseases and other issues. That applies to most species, except of course, humans and dogs; they seem to kiss each other as nosium and live just fine.
1) Your argument for 2) also supports 1). A second tortoise needs to be quarantined before introduction to the first. Now, scientific data needs to be carried out, where possible in laboratory conditions and this is not something that many tortoise owners would be prepared to do, put their tortoises in pairs and see how many kill each other. However empirical evidence, which is considered valid can include evidence gathered through observation and experience as well as by direct experimentation. Read the threads I linked, put "pairs" into the search function on this site, the overwhelming majority show that pairs don't work.
Yes, there seem to be exceptions , though it could be argued in many cases that anthropocentric tendencies incline people to believe that some tortoises are "cuddling", "sharing" , "snuggling" or what have you, leading to results that are more in favour of pairs than perhaps they should be. Even if they do work on occasion, and I am willing to accept it is possible, why take the risk when the vast majority of the thousands of cases that I have read about or witnessed don't end well ?
2) Agreed. (though you might mean " ad nauseam " ?)
 
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Loritort

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1) Your argument for 2) also supports 1). A second tortoise needs to be quarantined before introduction to the first. Now, scientific data needs to be carried out, where possible in laboratory conditions and this is not something that many tortoise owners would be prepared to do, put their tortoises in pairs and see how many kill each other. However empirical evidence, which is considered valid can include evidence gathered through observation and experience as well as by direct experimentation. Read the threads I linked, put "pairs" into the search function on this site, the overwhelming majority show that pairs don't work.
Yes, there seem to be exceptions , though it could be argued
in many cases that anthropocentric tendencies incline people to believe that some tortoises are "cuddling", "sharing" , "snuggling" or what have you, leading to results that are more in favour of pairs than perhaps they should be. Even if they do work on" occasion, and I am willing to accept it is possible, why take the risk when the vast majority of the thousands of cases that I have read about or witnessed don't end well ?
2) Agreed. (though you might mean " ad nauseam " ?)

Agreed. Very well stated.
 

Loritort

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1) Your argument for 2) also supports 1). A second tortoise needs to be quarantined before introduction to the first. Now, scientific data needs to be carried out, where possible in laboratory conditions and this is not something that many tortoise owners would be prepared to do, put their tortoises in pairs and see how many kill each other. However empirical evidence, which is considered valid can include evidence gathered through observation and experience as well as by direct experimentation. Read the threads I linked, put "pairs" into the search function on this site, the overwhelming majority show that pairs don't work.
Yes, there seem to be exceptions , though it could be argued in many cases that anthropocentric tendencies incline people to believe that some tortoises are "cuddling", "sharing" , "snuggling" or what have you, leading to results that are more in favour of pairs than perhaps they should be. Even if they do work on occasion, and I am willing to accept it is possible, why take the risk when the vast majority of the thousands of cases that I have read about or witnessed don't end well ?
2) Agreed. (though you might mean " ad nauseam " ?)
Tid, just want you to know that I enjoy your posts. They are always spot on. Thank you:)
 

Tom

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Hi,

If I am understanding correctly, there are really two separate issues going on here.

1) keeping tortoises of the same species as pairs: generally a bad idea, but I'd still like to see more scientific based data to back up the passionate claims.

2) keeping separate species together: never a good idea to mix species. Opens the door to spread of diseases and other issues. That applies to most species, except of course, humans and dogs; they seem to kiss each other as nosium and live just fine.

As with most things tortoise: Who would fund this study? Who would carry out this research? How would this scientific research be carried out? I've never had scientists knocking on my door asking to study how well my my tortoises get along. Further, as Adam pointed out, your "average" tortoise keeper frequently does not recognize the signs of tortoise aggression when they are looking right at it. They anthropomorphize and call chasing and harassment "following", or they call crowding and attempted displacement "cuddling". We've had at least three youtube videos posted on this forum of one tortoise ramming another tortoise that was labeled "helping". Two tortoises fighting and one ends up on its back. Then the video starts and the aggressor again rams its upside down rival and rights it. In one video the aggressor then proceeds to chase the loser out of its territory. In another of these videos, the aggressor is lining up for another broadside ram just as the video cuts. I understand the general public not grasping this concept, but tortoise keepers on this very forum responded with comments of how cute and wonderful it was that these tortoises were "helping" their "friends" who inexplicably found themselves upside down on flat ground for some odd reason.

I don't have any "scientific" data, but I have more than 30 years of seeing disaster after disaster. I'd prefer to not see even one more disaster due to this practice. Like the lady with the pair of red foots that ignored the advice to separate her tortoises, and then came back 6 weeks later asking what to do because one tortoise had literally eaten the tail and back leg of the other. Or Murray's thread about his juvenile russians featuring the picture of the tortoise with a bloody hole where its eye used to be. I don't know what evidence could be more compelling than that...
 
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