I need help! Baby sulcata tortoise MBD???

[Sal]

Hey guys I need help, i'm a new baby sulcata tortoise owner and i have some Serious questions. I bought him about a month and a half ago, he was really active and curious little tortoise, thats what sold me when I saw him. Now for the past week that has gone down hill. Let me tell you guys what i have him in and what i feed him, and hopefully someone can tell me if I'm doing something wrong. I keep him in a 55gallon tank with a basking spot right under 100 degrees, and other side of the tank is anywhere from 75-to 80 or so. And i have a uvb light on the tank too. Timothy and orchid hey for bedding, feed him collards,spinach,arugola and sometime a few carrots. Srinkle him repotovite without vitamn d3 atleast once a week (not enough?). And i do soak him 3-4 times a week. Now here are my problems, he is not active at all anymore, when i do soak him and wake him up he does open his eyes and he does look fine, he does still eat once he's awake. Hmm today i noticed his shell does flex when u squeez him gently (i'm not sure if its a normal flex or not). I read on forums and stuff about mbd and one of the symptoms I have a softshell. But i really don't know what normal is.. But the biggest thing is him not active, i can leave work in the morning and come back 8hrs later and he's still in the same spot. So him being active came down to nothing. Pleaseee help me! What am i doing wrong?? Some ppl said put him outside with real uv light..? I just need anykind help please

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Sal. What kind of light do you have? If it's one of those curly shaped compact fluorescent bulbs, turn it off immediately and toss it.

Did you read all the "Important Threads" shown at the top of the Sulcata section here? There's a wealth of info in there for you.

 

[Sal]

Its is one of the curly ones..... =\ and will check those threads right now!, well if the curly ones are bad what is the right one? And is me putting him outside for the day bad for him?

 

[wellington]

The sun shine is the best UVB you can give him. Just be sure he has shade and water and does not,over heat. The substrate you are using is bad, too drying, get coconut coir and get the humidity up to 80% with temps no lower then 80 ever. Be sure to have water available 24/7 in a shallow dish he can easily get in and out of. A good UVB light is a mercury vapor bulb, gives heat, light and UVB. You will also need a CHE, ceramic heat emitter, for night time heat.
Toms threads below in my post are a must read for sulcata and leopard owners.

 

[Sal]

Ok to start off I have read Tom's post about them, and understand the general care that goes with them. Just wanting to hear other tips that You guys have on raising them. I've noticed every website you go to it tells you something Different of taking care of them. Last start off with encloser. Some say tank some say tortoise table, tank holds humidity table does not. 80%hunidity at all times? I hear a mercury vapor bulb is a good uvb bulb for them, how long do i keep it on? Every day? Basking spot over 95 degrees and tank temp no lower then 80..? Foods.. Any comercial foods any good? What is the perfect healthy diete for them? Just trying to get the most tips for ya'll experts and tortoise keepers. I've already bought 2 of them from local petstores but had only bad luck with them, i think they have been selling me sick tortoises.. Now that i have found a local sulcata breeder i wanna make sure i know allot of facts about them. Any tips would be helpful and really appreciate it. Thanks guys

 

[wellington]

The stuff you are reading on some other sites is usually wrong and outdated. A closed chamber is the best and easiest for keeping humidity and temps correct. Follow Toms threads for a closed chamber and you won't go wrong. The mvb is a very good bulb. Gives both heat, UVB and light. It should be on every day and for the length of day time hours. A CHE (ceramic heat emitter) usually is used for night time heat. If your able to,get them outside for a couple hours 3-4 times a week, then a UVB light is not needed. Grocery greens are okay if that's all you can do, however, a more natural diet is best. Also, feed as big a variety as possible. Here is one site to help find good foods http://m.thetortoisetable.org.uk/m/tortoise_home_1.asp

 

[lismar79]

Tortoise table, tank holds humidity table does not. - An Enclosed chamber (Tall enough to keep lights inside with a lid over top) works best to hold Humidity in.
80%hunidity at all times? - For a Baby, Yes. A Humid hide is also a real good thing to have- Small plastic box filled with moist moss that they can burrow into
I hear a mercury vapor bulb is a good uvb bulb for them, how long do i keep it on? Every day? - I have mine on a timer that turns on at 7am & off at ten pm. Yes, you need this everyday unless you are somewhere where you can get them outside for at least an hr a day (opinions vary here on how much out side time, but half hr a day is min I have seen) DO NOT BUY A COIL STYLE BULB.
Basking spot over 95 degrees and tank temp no lower then 80..? - Yes in a high humid environment you do not want to chance temps getting below 80- cold & wet = a sick tort
Foods.. Any commercial foods any good? - I give my Sully baby Mazuri 2 times a week & am very pleased with the amount of growth it helps provide. I feel it rounds off her diet of grass & weeds
What is the perfect healthy diet for them? - Grass, broad leaf weeds (plantain, chicory, sow thistle, dandelion, etc) grape vine leafs, Mullberry leaf is especially good & I use that as a staple. prickly pear cactus is also good as is hibiscus flowers & leafs, rose of sharon flowers & leafs and squash blossoms.
You also need a good source of calcium like a cuttlefish bone. Leave it in the enclosure for them to nibble on. If you notice they do not use it much then scrape a little onto food twice a week.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Sal, and welcome to the Forum! Best advice I can give you is don't even think about getting two of them. Even as babies, pairs don't do well. One will grow big while the other seems to be stunted. You may not see actual pushing and shoving, but 'mental' bullying occurrs. The more dominant baby will keep after the less dominant baby to get out of the territory. But, being confined in a tort table or whatever, the less dominant baby has nowhere to go. So he stays hidden a lot, stops eating and quits growing.

 

[Tom]

Seems like you already found the care sheet. Here are a couple more that might explain some things for you:
Diet: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

What not to do:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Why your first two might have failed and why your next one might also fail. This will tell you what questions to ask the breeder BEFORE you buy:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/


To answer your questions:
1. Yes 80% all the time, and near 100% in the humid hide. This simulates the African rainy season that babies hatch into. Why not 70%? Why not 90%? 80% seems to get the job done in practice. 50% is too low. Above 80% doesn't do anything more than 80%. A closed chamber will give you the best results and be the easiest to maintain.
2. MVB are too big and hot for a closed chamber. In my 4x8' chambers 65 watts is about as big as I can go. They don't make a MVB under 100 watts and those overheat my chambers. That is another benefit of a closed chamber. You use a lot less electricity to maintain excellent conditions. Your lighting should simulate the sun. On for about 12 hours a day. I recommend using sunshine to meet your tortoises UV needs. If this is not possible all year long in your climate, I recommend a regular basking bulb for heat and long florescent tubes for UV. You will need to know how to properly use whatever type you choose, and we can help you with that. I recommend a UV light meter for anyone who is dependent on artificial UV to meet their tortoises needs.
3. You have the correct temps.
4. See the thread above for diet info.

Where are you? Most breeders, vets, experts, books and websites are still promoting incorrect old methods. THey seem to think that sulcatas are a desert species and need it hot and dry. They don't. Al those books mention the dry season, but none of them address or even mention the wet season. Sulcatas babies hatch at the start of the 3-4 month rainy season. Its hot, wet, rainy, humid and marshy. For the other 8-9 months a year they are underground away from the dry hot desiccating above ground air. I still cannot understand why so many reasonably intelligent people did not or could not see these simple facts for 30 some odd years, and many still don't.

Good luck and keep the questions coming.

 

[Sal]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone responding to my questions, all the info i can get is really Appreciated. And yes Tom i'll keep the questions coming =D you said that the MVB gets your tanks to hot, mine seems like its doing fine in the tank i havd my baby boxturtle in. It looks like boxturtles and baby sulcata live in pretty close to the same temps. And when you talk about a uv Florescent tube, wich one do u excatlly use?

 

[Sal]

Is a reptisun 10.0 a good tube light? So is the mvb enough and the correct light if you have your temps right to succesfully grow a baby sulcata?

 

[Tom]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone responding to my questions, all the info i can get is really Appreciated. And yes Tom i'll keep the questions coming =D you said that the MVB gets your tanks to hot, mine seems like its doing fine in the tank i havd my baby boxturtle in. It looks like boxturtles and baby sulcata live in pretty close to the same temps. And when you talk about a uv Florescent tube, wich one do u excatlly use?

In an open topped tank MVBs are fine. All the heat goes up and into the room. In a proper closed chamber, which is best for baby sulcatas, the heat is trapped inside the enclosure, so you need a lot less heat.

Either the 10.0 or one of the newer HO bulbs will work. The 10.0 needs to be mounted 10-12" away, while the HO needs to be more like 20" away. Which one I would use depends on the application. If your climate dictates that the tortoise must be indoors for months at a time, then I would highly suggest a light meter to make sure your UV bulbs are set at the correct height and producing adequate UV. I suggest this one: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html

 

[Sal]

What age or what size can Do you considere a baby sulcata big enough to start moving it to a tortoise table that dosen't have hunidity?