I am baby sitting a CDT hatchling - it won't eat, sleeps all day, and has mucus

[mark1]

not sure how big or how sick your tortoise is , but I've once had two hatchlings in the 30 gram range that were very sick . not eating , lethargic , dull not completely open eyes , weak , distressed open mouth breathing , and nasal mucus , I assumed a bacterial infection/pneumonia , they were obviously , at least from my experience , going to die , and most likely soon ........ I was of the opinion nothing could be done , I had nothing to lose , and they would have been hard to replace , so i took them to a exotic animal/reptile vet , I told him I doubted he could dose them , he told me they were behemoths in comparison to some he had treated ..... he treated them with injectable fortaz and subq fluids ......... I think if your vet is not capable of dosing them , at minimum he could give you subq fluids , from what I've seen subq fluids by themselves will buy an animal more time to get well , and often makes them feel well enough to start eating again ..... i think thoughts on what vets can and can't do is very much a perspective based opinion .... it is possible i just got lucky , but the vet didn't appear to me to think it was luck ......jme

 

[Yvonne G]

I'm just so impressed with the way you've taken over the care of this baby tortoise. I used to belong to the turtle club here in town, and I must say, even the members with exotic tortoises really didn't know beans about tortoises. And raising babies? forget it.

The reason we have good information here on the Forum is because of several members who have experimented and come up with the way that works. Also, one of the more prominent tortoise people in Africa has shared his information with us - information about what baby tortoises do when they hatch out, what the weather and earth conditions are like, etc.

Because it is illegal to breed desert tortoises and hatch their eggs, there isn't much direct information about them, but conditions in the mojave and sonoran deserts are similar to conditions in other places where baby tortoises hatch out, so we can follow the care of other species when taking care of baby desert tortoises.

I have a rescue here in Central California, and every year people turn in baby desert tortoises to me. I have experience with babies, and I can tell you first hand, if you follow the care sheet for raising baby sulcatas or baby russians, your baby desert tortoises will not only live, but will thrive. When I first read your thread, I searched the 'net for a care sheet that included hatchling care, and even care sheets written by desert tortoise experts don't have current information on raising babies.

In short, you can trust the information you are getting from Forum members. Good luck with the baby, and I hope the baby's owners listen to you when they get back.

 

[Ciri]

I met with the only "expert" I could find. She is an owner of several adult CDTs, and has 4 young ones around 5 years old. She told me not to be surprised if this hatchling dies; over the years she has had near 100 eggs and only 4 had survived. This shocked me, but also made me worry she wasn't do it right. Is this a typical mortality rate in captivity?

She advised me to change the substrate in the terrarium, its currently some sort of wood chip things in half of it (after soaking the tort she got covered all over in little splinter looking things trying to bury herself in it), the other half is small stones and pebbles (all can be seen in the pictures posted above). She told me to replace all of it with Eco Earth Coconut Fiber Substrate, at several inches deep to allow the little one to burrow.

She told me NEVER to touch it, that if it buries itself to leave it alone. I told her of the recommendation to soak the little one each day, and she said it would do that itself as needed, and that if they can go along time buried and not eating. I told her that the family that owns this one, has 4 year old and they handle it ALL THE TIME, and hand feed it. She said all of the handling is likely why it is sick, and that a baby tort is a horrible pet for a child. She then told me again if it dies its not my fault ;(

She said when the eggs come out, they look like ping pong balls and if you touch them they wont hatch, and that little hatchlings are also very sensitive to touch, and they usually die from stress.

She told me the vet appointment was pointless, and agreed the temp and substrate will be the most important thing to control. So I cancelled the visit to the vet, and I will leave that decision to the owners.

Now, my question for all you very helpful folks... what do you think of this advice? I'd love to pass all this advice to the family that owns it when they return and allow them to make the decision. I also have a number for a CDT rescue near Ventura CA in case they decide to give it up.

Should I continue to handle the baby and make sure it gets soaking and encouraged to eat?

FYI - I added a ceramic heater to the mix, with temp control, and the light is cycling 6a-7p. She ate some endive today, and seemed to be really happy about it, but only after I woke her up to give her a warm soak and then set her in front of the the food. After eating for about 10 minutes, she returned to bury herself in the wood bits and has been there the rest of the day.

I think the fact that this individual has had only 4 out of 100 hatchlings survive speaks volumes about her capabilities and knowledge. I have cared for adult and hatchling desert tortoises, as well as adult and hatchling desert box turtles. My reptile specialist veterinarian has been able to treat respiratory infections such as the one your hatchling likely has through carefully dosed injections of antibiotics. I have not lost a hatchling yet. Not all veterinarians are equal in their knowledge and capabilities, but if you do have a reptile specialist veterinarian the hatchling will have a much better chance at survival of this infection than simply letting the infection run its course. That is obviously what this person has done with poor results. If it is not possible to get the little one to a good reptile veterinarian, then treatment does become substantially more difficult. My reptile veterinarian has saved a few turtles and tortoises who were quite ill. I feel it's always better in this type of situation to rely on someone who knows the scientific research, and is capable of the best treatment available. There is a list of reptile veterinarians on this website, not to mention the California turtle and tortoise clubs who might be able to help. The San Diego turtle and tortoise Society seems to be a very good resource. I am a member even though I don't live there since they do well at educating people on good turtle and tortoise care. If you are in Southern California they could be a good resource for veterinarians.

I would not switch to the coconut fiber substrate is my reptile veterinarian has recommended against using that. What I do is get some soil from outdoors that is not been sprayed with herbicides or pesticides for several years. I sanitize it in an oven. Short of that, a potting soil that has no perlite, bat guano, chemicals, and is organic is a good choice.

It is a good idea that you are soaking the little tortoise regularly. I don't see any harm in touching tortoises – they will need to adjust to this since they will spend their life in captivity, anyhow. The important point I always make is to wash one's hands before handling the tortoise, it's sanitized water dish , etc. With proper care they can do quite well.

It is really wonderful that you care so much and are workng so hard to give this little tortoise the best chance for survival. It warms my heart to see this!

 

[surfergirl]

The three things that come to mind as good signs in a chance of recovery is that the hatchling is eating, strong enough to burrow, and its eyes are still open!

You are doing great and this little one has a huge chance of recovery if you keep caring for it like Tom has recommended. Maybe the owners will let you get it back to healthy status and do their research before they take it back from you. It would be sad if they reverse all you have done for it by taking it back before they know what they are doing.

 

[TheBabySitter]

This is the enclosure. There is a chicken wire lid for the big side, and a full cover plywood top for the small side. It's about 8" deep.

Since adding heat she is spending most of the time below the wood bridge thing, dug into the wood mulch.

There is some sort of green carpet stuff in the small compartment, and a half log shelter.

The temps have been really good the past couple days now in the big area. But the smaller compartment is only around 78. Should I obstruct access to the cooler area or is this good for her to have a retreat to an area this cool.

Recommendations on layout would be very appreciated.

 

[Carol S]

I would get rid of the rocks and gravel. If the baby eats the gravel she can get an intestinal blockage. I would use coconut coir. I use coconut coir for my Russian hatchlings and I have been very happy with the results.

 

[Yelloweyed]

It is good to have a cooler place to retreat to but she may be under the log bridge because it's the only thing she has to hide under. She's a baby and babies mean prey to other animals. Plants, logs, twigs and loose dirt/substrate provide protection similar to a burrow.