help needed! my baby leopard suddenly refuses to eat.

[Sidniy]

hi i need help here. I'm very new in raising a baby tortoise. I'm currently living in Malaysia with average temperature 23 C at night and 32 C during day time and himidity is about 80% thoughout the year. i usually put my tortoise outside when i go to work so he gets all the heat and sunlight during the day. i only had it for about a month plus. it used to be very active, seeing it walks around or at least standing up when i get back home at about 3pm. however, these few days, my tortoise sleeps when i get back home and only awake when pick it up or soak it. when i tried to feed it, it only takes a few bites and walk away. today, it even worse. it ate almost nothing except for a bite on hibiscus leaf and walked away. plus, today i noticed something from its poops. not sure if its parasite or just undigested food from yesterday . here's some picture of it's set up.. most of the time i put it on the cemented area rather than the grass land. i scare it will eat the dirt. oh, at night i will bring inside my home and put it in a ceramic bowl.

 

[JoesMum]

Hello and welcome

Do you have access to a vet who can check a fresh sample of poop for parasites?

 

[Sidniy]

Hello and welcome

Do you have access to a vet who can check a fresh sample of poop for parasites?

im not sure if my local vet can do that. they are more to dogs and cats. i live in a small town. maybe i can try my luck but i won't put so much hope on them.

 

[JoesMum]

Any vet can check for parasites. It's the same test regardless. If the test is positive, come back to us regarding suitable medication and doses though!

 

[Sidniy]

will try take tommorow's poop to test

 

[Tom]

Your night temps are too cold and day time temps are too cool, unless your tortoise has access to sunshine.

Your tortoise also needs a proper enclosure with substrate up off of the ground.

Since its not a tiny little baby suffering from being too dry when it hatched, the most likely cause here is a husbandry issue. I find two usual issues over there in your part of the world.
1. People seem to think its already warm enough, so they don't use any supplemental heat sources day or night, indoors or out. Its not warm enough when they are kept inside with no access to sun in an indoor enclosure. Its definitely not warm enough on the concrete, at night, with high humidity and an over night low of 23 C.
2. People over there seem to mix species and house them together regularly. What was the source of your baby? Was he in a small tank living with other species before you got him?

Please read these:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

 

[Sidniy]

well, i never supply any heat for my tortoise since during the day time its really really hot here. up to 35 c and i think it will heat up the concrete much higher. as for night time, it could be too cold? perhaps. since i never measure the temperature here. outside would be 23c. so indoor i assume 1 or 2 degree c higher? i never put it outside since i got it during the night time. i bought my baby from a local pet shop. it was in a plastic container mixed with other species. good thing i took some pic before i bought it. yeah, i know it looks bad. so what's your best advice for the current time being? is using substrate necessary? so far no mucous found around the nose and mouth area. but i do saw once or twice bubble from the nose. once after soaking and the other time was being fed opuntia pad.

 

[Yvonne G]

Mucous like that with the poop generally means flagellates.

You have some very pretty tortoise babies, but they each should be kept in separate habitats. Those tortoises would never cross paths in the wild and when you keep them all together like that you're taking a chance on making them sick. A tortoise habitat for a captive tortoise should look similar to this:



It doesn't matter how hot your weather is, the tortoises still need a light that they can sit under, just like they would sit in the sun, in order to warm up their inner core.

I think you'll find your leopard baby more interested in eating if you set him up in a proper habitat with a light that heats it up to in the 80'sF. Tortoises are territorial and they don't want to share their territory with other tortoises.

 

[Sidniy]

Mucous like that with the poop generally means flagellates.

You have some very pretty tortoise babies, but they each should be kept in separate habitats. Those tortoises would never cross paths in the wild and when you keep them all together like that you're taking a chance on making them sick. A tortoise habitat for a captive tortoise should look similar to this:

View attachment 187852 View attachment 187853 View attachment 187854

It doesn't matter how hot your weather is, the tortoises still need a light that they can sit under, just like they would sit in the sun, in order to warm up their inner core.

I think you'll find your leopard baby more interested in eating if you set him up in a proper habitat with a light that heats it up to in the 80'sF. Tortoises are territorial and they don't want to share their territory with other tortoises.

oh those babies are not mine. those are the pics from the pet shop. i only have one so far.

 

[Sidniy]

Mucous like that with the poop generally means flagellates.

You have some very pretty tortoise babies, but they each should be kept in separate habitats. Those tortoises would never cross paths in the wild and when you keep them all together like that you're taking a chance on making them sick. A tortoise habitat for a captive tortoise should look similar to this:

View attachment 187852 View attachment 187853 View attachment 187854

It doesn't matter how hot your weather is, the tortoises still need a light that they can sit under, just like they would sit in the sun, in order to warm up their inner core.

I think you'll find your leopard baby more interested in eating if you set him up in a proper habitat with a light that heats it up to in the 80'sF. Tortoises are territorial and they don't want to share their territory with other tortoises.

BTW, are these flagellates dangerous? do i need to do anything about it? or are they so common they can be neglected?

 

[Tom]

BTW, are these flagellates dangerous? do i need to do anything about it? or are they so common they can be neglected?

Different species of tortoises from around the world all have different parasites and pathogens. Normally a healthy tortoise can deal with the "bugs" that are from its own area. When you mix species from different parts of the world, they are exposed to foreign types of "bugs" that they cannot defend against. This can happen even when they are captive bred babies.

Your tortoise needs a proper habitat with the correct heating, lighting and temperatures, and then hopefully, in time, it will fight off any "bugs" that it has been exposed too. Time will tell.

 

[Fredkas]

I find two usual issues over there in your part of the world.
1. People seem to think its already warm enough, so they don't use any supplemental heat sources day or night, indoors or out. Its not warm enough when they are kept inside with no access to sun in an indoor enclosure. Its definitely not warm enough on the concrete, at night, with high humidity and an over night low of 23 C.
2. People over there seem to mix species and house them together regularly. What was the source of your baby? Was he in a small tank living with other species before you got him?

Oh you are really doing your research and point it out exactly right! And they are very stubborn. I mean, they don't see any bad outcome yet. And never stated any pyramiding vs humidity thing, that makes even more debate.

 

[Sidniy]

first of all, i would like to thank you everyone for their precious advice. here's some update of my baby tortoise today.
but before that i need to clarify something. it's not that people in my part of the world doesn't care about humidity or temperature. maybe, just maybe it's really really hot here and so some people including me thought it would be not necessary to buy heat lamp. plus things like substrate and special lamps for reptiles are quite rare here in my small town. so i'll need to order it online and that would take sometime.

as for my baby tortoise, today as i get back from home, it was sheltering, hiding away from the sun. should i force the sunlight by leaving out the shades or what? i tried to wake it and put it somewhere with sunlight, then it would just crawl back into shades. I tried soak it in warm water like i always did then tried to feed my baby again ( tried feeding before soaking but ate nothing) somehow it did take a few bit on the vege i gave it. not much though. just a few bite. it only eats under the shade and not under the sun. is the sun too bright? too much heat and lost appetite? here's the pic of my tortoise eating. i still haven't got the substrate yet, ordering though. as for the poop for fecal exam? can't get any yet. nothing ate yesterday = no poop. no poop= no fecal exam. so parasites or no, unsure yet. anyhow, im suspecting respiratory infection. i can't see any mucous from the nose, but it keeps stretching it's neck. and then the neck will sort of like breathing like how a frog does. grow big then small big then small. yeah that's pretty much my report for today. hopefully some kind of master can explain the behavior shown? BTW, im sorry for my language if it's hard to understand.

 

[Fredkas]

I am sorry i dont mean you when i said that.
I leave your other questions to some more experienced members.
What i want to point out is, you need to buy a temp gun, so you will know the temp of your tort environment. I have similar weather condition like you, our daytime sunshine around 11.30 a.m to 3.00 p.m is so hot that if your tort bask for one hour around that time, he will avoid any sunshine for the entire day, because the environment around it even when he is at shade, will be 33C which is maybe no reason he will bask again.

And maybe, just maybe, if you don't know. Tortoise is a cold blood animal. It means they can't generate heat using their own body. You know when we mammals feels cold, or hot, our core temp will help us. But that is different with tortoise, they depends on their environment. So if they feel cold, they search for heat and vice versa.
"But i don't know if he is too cold or too hot, because i think he is sick enough he won't walk"
that is why i recommends you buy a temp gun. You can measure his environment and his shell temp. Tortoise need to be around 28 at lowest to minimalize any health issues. And no need to force him to the sun.

I am sorry i am talking too much, if you know all of this already, ignore what i am typing. I am just trying to help.
I live in indonesia and yours and my weather condition is safe for tort in daytime (sometimes too hot, we need a lot of shade for them), but night time is too low especially the rainy season, i think your day temp is good, you just need to beware of night temp.

But read the link other members give you, i am just giving a very little information for you. There is still a lot to cover up.
I am also very careful with my tort health because i don't believe vet at my place, they are more for cats and dogs, same like yours. For me, here is the vet.

Hey keep us update.. and ask questions and read a lot. Wish the best for you and your tort.

 

[Yvonne G]

oh those babies are not mine. those are the pics from the pet shop. i only have one so far.

Sorry...I didn't read your original post thoroughly.

I also didn't realize that your cardboard habitat is outside in the sun. Of course, with real sunlight, you do not need a light. He can sit in the sun if he wants to, or he can sit in the shade if he wants to. Leave it. He needs the shade so he doesn't overheat.

 

[Gillian M]

A very warm welcome to the forum. A cute tort you have!

Torts do not like change therefore it takes them time to adapt.

 

[Sidniy]

I am sorry i dont mean you when i said that.
I leave your other questions to some more experienced members.
What i want to point out is, you need to buy a temp gun, so you will know the temp of your tort environment. I have similar weather condition like you, our daytime sunshine around 11.30 a.m to 3.00 p.m is so hot that if your tort bask for one hour around that time, he will avoid any sunshine for the entire day, because the environment around it even when he is at shade, will be 33C which is maybe no reason he will bask again.

And maybe, just maybe, if you don't know. Tortoise is a cold blood animal. It means they can't generate heat using their own body. You know when we mammals feels cold, or hot, our core temp will help us. But that is different with tortoise, they depends on their environment. So if they feel cold, they search for heat and vice versa.
"But i don't know if he is too cold or too hot, because i think he is sick enough he won't walk"
that is why i recommends you buy a temp gun. You can measure his environment and his shell temp. Tortoise need to be around 28 at lowest to minimalize any health issues. And no need to force him to the sun.

I am sorry i am talking too much, if you know all of this already, ignore what i am typing. I am just trying to help.
I live in indonesia and yours and my weather condition is safe for tort in daytime (sometimes too hot, we need a lot of shade for them), but night time is too low especially the rainy season, i think your day temp is good, you just need to beware of night temp.

But read the link other members give you, i am just giving a very little information for you. There is still a lot to cover up.
I am also very careful with my tort health because i don't believe vet at my place, they are more for cats and dogs, same like yours. For me, here is the vet.

Hey keep us update.. and ask questions and read a lot. Wish the best for you and your tort.

hi, from neighboring country. im so glad someone from the same climate responded. yeah. maybe night time too cold. i don't think my home manage to achieve 28c at night. will try improve the temperature and maybe try feeding metronidazole. since its highly possible infected by flagellates. i googled flagellates in tortoise all the symptoms matched. previously it does have diarrhea (i assumed because the feces are not solid and kinda wet). if it keeps on starving im afraid it doesn't have the energy to fight off any diseases. now im figuring out how to feed the metronidazole since its powdery form and my tort hardly eats anything.

 

[Tom]

hi, from neighboring country. im so glad someone from the same climate responded. yeah. maybe night time too cold. i don't think my home manage to achieve 28c at night. will try improve the temperature and maybe try feeding metronidazole. since its highly possible infected by flagellates. i googled flagellates in tortoise all the symptoms matched. previously it does have diarrhea (i assumed because the feces are not solid and kinda wet). if it keeps on starving im afraid it doesn't have the energy to fight off any diseases. now im figuring out how to feed the metronidazole since its powdery form and my tort hardly eats anything.

I would not medicate your tortoise without the guidance of an experienced tortoise vet.

The type of flagellates that would infect your tortoise are not necessarily treated by that medicine. Cryptosporidia, for example, is a flagellate protozoan and Metronidazol does nothing to treat it in a tortoise. Sometimes medicines do more harm than good.

 

[Sidniy]

I would not medicate your tortoise without the guidance of an experienced tortoise vet.

The type of flagellates that would infect your tortoise are not necessarily treated by that medicine. Cryptosporidia, for example, is a flagellate protozoan and Metronidazol does nothing to treat it in a tortoise. Sometimes medicines do more harm than good.

Oh wow. Never knew that. Thanks for the reminder. Almost bought the med. Does fecal exam helps identify flagelatte? But my baby havent poop since yesterday. So so worried. Its growing so weak. Its more to crawling than walking already.

 

[Tom]

Oh wow. Never knew that. Thanks for the reminder. Almost bought the med. Does fecal exam helps identify flagelatte? But my baby havent poop since yesterday. So so worried. Its growing so weak. Its more to crawling than walking already.

It depends on the type. Some of them can be very difficult to diagnose. A tortoise vet will know how to try.

But this is one reason we always try to tell people not to mix species. These things are not easy to diagnose or treat, and you can't even be sure where it come from unless you diagnose it in a former cage mate. Many of these "bugs" can only be found in a necropsy by a vet who really knows what they are doing.