Heating options for outdoor burrow, 3 year old Sulcata

[Blue-az]

Hello, new to this forum. I'm in Scottsdale, Arizona and I adopted a 3 year old Sulcata (about 10" front to back) in May. He lives in our big backyard and I've built him a mounded burrow that he uses every day.

I'm concerned that the weather is getting too cold for him at night and I want to install a heater. The burrow is 18" deep at the back and he has dug a secondary chamber leading off to the side that is about 24" deep. I was thinking of installing a radiant heater on the underside of the top of the chamber (it is flat wood with mounded dirt on top). The sides of the burrow are concrete block. Here in the Phoenix area it can get into the 40's at night and sometimes (January or February) we can even dip into the 30s. It's still in the 70's during the day and gets into the 100's and 110+ during the summer.

Lately he has been slow getting up in the mornings and usually doesn't exit his burrow until the sun is on it at about 10:00 in the morning. He's been going to bed at about 5:00 PM when the sun is getting low on the horizon. I was thinking of a radiant heater to provide warmth overnight from about 6:00 PM until about 9:00 AM.

Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[Blue-az]

Here are a couple photos...

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Hi Blue, welcome to TFO

I have a 10" Leopard that lives in my yard. Although not a sulcata, they can be housed the same way.

I built a fully insulate tort house and heat it with a mini oil radiator. It's set on a thermostat so I can be sure that his temps never drop below a certain temperature. The nice thing about this design is it's functional in multiple climates.

I'm not sure how to advise you to heat your current set up (I've never done it and using natural burrows is heavily debated around here) but I can recommend you building one like this. Make it full size from the start and you wont have to "re build"

The thread where I got the idea
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/

My night box building threads
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/leopard-tortoise-heated-night-box.83326/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/leopard-tort-house.90297/

Hope this helps

 

[Dizisdalife]

Here is what I think works best for your climate. Tom built this a few years ago and still uses it for some of his sulcata. The doorway that you have there is gonna get tight by next summer. These guys can have major growth spurts.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/daisys-new-enclosure.28662/#post-268812

 

[Blue-az]

Thank you both for the replies. I think that an above-ground shed would certainly be an easier all-around option but my wife and I really wanted a subterranean burrow for him so it blends in with the back yard landscaping. As soon as we adopted him he started burrowing in a corner on the side of the house and I built him a similar but much smaller little house over there. Then I built this larger one and he only uses the larger one now. I've located it in an elevated area so it won't flood and I've reinforced the sides with concrete block so I'm not worried about it collapsing. I fully understand that I'll have to rebuild it in the spring to make it larger, including the entrance, that is certainly not a problem. I might just dig up the whole thing this weekend and deepen it, enlarge it, and figure out some sort of heating option for the winter. It supposed to rain here all day tomorrow (a rare occurrence) and I have his house and a few feet on all sides covered with plastic right now. I extended his front porch and covered it with plastic so he can sit and watch the rain tomorrow and stay dry. He's not spoiled at all.....

 

[Levi the Leopard]

If underground is your preference then check our the link joe (dizisdalife) gave you. It's a heated box like mine, buried underground like you want.

It's gotta be a tough job to do but once it's done, it's done! And you could most certainly "beautify" more than Tom (the creator of that underground bunker) did

 

[Dizisdalife]

Since it has a wooden top you might be able to attach a radiated heating panel to it and supply heat that way. I have no experience to guide you with this, so you are on your own to make it work. I will suggest that you use a thermostat in conjunction with whatever heat source you decide on so that you can maintain the temperature you want. Covering the opening with a clear vinyl flap would also help hold in the heat. You might also want to use the "search forum" feature for discussions on radiated heating panels" and "burrows". There has been several threads about the pros and cons of burrows. Also, my sulcata lives in an above ground shed like the one Heather showed. Every night I hear him dig into the corner. It doesn't hurt anything, just gets noisy for a few minutes while he settles in. I would be concerned about using concrete or cinder block for walls because of rubbing on the nails and forearms. Again, no experience here, just a concerned thought.

 

[Blue-az]

Headed to the local reptile store now to check out heaters. They are advertising a Reptitherm Habitat Heater that I'm wondering if I could mount on the side wall (not the bottom) of his burrow to provide heat until I can construct a new habitat (it will inevitably be a buried box like you all have suggested).

Reptitherm Habitat Heater:
Industrial Strength Heater for Heavy Tortoises and other Large Reptile Cage Applications.120 Volt, 40 watt heater with LED light to tell you when the heater is on. Automatic thermostat protection shuts-offheater at 119F (48C) to prevent overheating. Water-resistant construction. Made from easy-to-clean moisture-proof high density polyethylene plastic. Metal protection on power cord to help prevent damage from tortoises and other animals.Mounting rails molded into heater allow for secure placement on the floor or side of the enclosure. 75 to 80% electrical savings over other heating devices..

http://www.reptilemogulexotics.com/store.php

 

[pdrobber]

I use one of these in my indoor pen for my juvenile Sulcata and it works great. To the touch it does feel very hot, so I use a basic hydrofarm thermostat with it set for 105°F. If you'll be mounting it to the side that wouldn't be as much a concern and if it's outdoors you probably would want/need the higher heat output.

 

[Tom]

Here are three ways I have solved this problem:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/daisys-new-enclosure.28662/

 

[Blue-az]

Well I spent about 8 hours Sunday and another 3 hours last night expanding Gilbert's home. I basically built an underground box and I installed the Reptitherm Habitat Heater. Final dimensions are 24" wide x 42" long x about 22" deep, plus it will have another 3" or 4" of soil on top of it to bring it flush with the surrounding grade. Then I'll mound up another 12" or so of soil to make it complete. I wanted to make it at least 48" long but I ran into too may cobbles. I have to put the finishing touches on it and then bury it. I'll upload some more photos once it's finished.

 

[Dizisdalife]

That's a lot of shoveling! If you don't have one, you should get a thermometer with a remote sensor so that you can monitor the temps in that burrow. One like this should do the job:
http://www.kohls.com/product/prd-20...17588969&cpncode=42-19377769-2&CID=shopping15

 

[Blue-az]

Great idea - I will swing by Kohl's and pick one up!

 

[Dizisdalife]

Great idea - I will swing by Kohl's and pick one up!

That link was included as an example only. You might get a better buy at Home Depot. As long as it has temp and humidity sensing from the remote it will do what you need. They sell sensors that send temp only, and others that send temp and humidity.

 

[motero]

That looks great, But your tort will move large amounts of dirt next summer as he continues to dig your heat mat will be buried in no time.

 

[Blue-az]

I'm more of a Home Depot or Lowe's guy anyway. I'll find one that does both temp & humidity. What is my target range for humidity?

I'm cutting a hinged access door into the top panel over the heat mat that will let me remove the mat, remove dirt, access Gilbert, etc. I'll just place a large rock over the access door and let the mounded dirt surround it. As he dug his burrow in his old house he conveniently brought the dirt to the tunnel entrance and I just periodically scooped it up and sprinkled it over the top of the mound.

I have a mirror on the back wall at the end of the tunnel entrance that lets me see his burrow area so I can just look down the tunnel with a flashlight and verify that he's in there. Checked on him this morning and delivered breakfast in bed (kale with a dusting of calcium). He was just chillin with his rear half in his dug-out burrow hole and his front corner & leg up on the heat pad.

Here's a photo with the box top and covered tunnel entrance. Still have to extend the entrance cover to shield the down-ramp from rain, dress up the opening with some lodgepole pine, and of course move all that dirt back to make his mound.

 

[Blue-az]

Finally downloaded some more photos. Pretty much finished now...just need to add a bit more soil on top and smooth it all out. I also hung some plastic on the opening as it is getting cold here now. This morning it was 32 degrees outside and the temperature was 63 in his enclosure. Temperature within his enclosure has been varying between 63 and 67 during the day. The temperature sensor is hung about 14" off the ground on the wall of his enclosure but I've also measure the temperature on his heating pad and it is a steady 104 degrees. He sits back in his burrow and occasionally puts a portion of his shell on the heating pad. He seems to be comfortable enough but I'm watching the temperatures closely because I'm concerned that it may still be a bit chilly for him. When the sun is out and it's in the 60's outside he comes out and basks and eats as normal.

 

[Dizisdalife]

I have never used a heating pad or mat, but 104° sounds too warm to me. You may want to lower that temp to see if he moves on and off of it to regulate his core temperature. I keep my sulcata's shed at about 80°. Sometimes at 85° when I see it is cold and cloudy where he will be staying inside for more than a day. Their digestion and immune systems slow down below 80°(that's their core temp not the air temp). I have read of sulcatas being kept at 60°(at the coldest point of the night), but it seems as though they were large, very large adults. They heat themselves up during the day, getting their core temperature up in the 80°'s, and because they are so large they retain most of their core temperature through the night.

 

[Blue-az]

Wow, it's been a bit over 4 years since I've visited this forum and this thread!

Gilbert is doing well and he's grown quite a bit. He's now about 7 or 8 years old. He also has 2 new little brothers (humans, not tortoises!) since I was here in 2014. My first son was born in 2015 and my second son was born this past August. They love their big brother Gilbert.

As one of you pointed out when I first constructed his underground home, I had to expand it quite a bit. In October 2017 I reconstructed the doorway and entrance tunnel and widened it by about 10". Over the years I've dug and shop-vac'd probably well over half a cubic yard of dirt from the entrance of his burrow as he keeps on digging. Last time I had the access hatch over his house open (October 2017) I got a tape measure about 8 feet down the tunnel he's excavated. So he's spending his time underneath the grass well forward of the entrance to his house.

I'll attach some photos showing his growth from the day we adopted him on May 21, 2014 to today's date, January 16, 2019. The last photo of him sitting in his doorway eating kale & carrots is from today.

In the photos with him on the gray slate patio tiles, note that the tiles are all 16" X 16". In the photo with my foot for scale from October 20, 2018, my bare foot is 10.5" heel to toe. I'll have to get a current photo of him on the same gray slate tiles. Like I said, he's grown quite a bit!!!

 

[Big Charlie]

Wow, it's been a bit over 4 years since I've visited this forum and this thread!

Gilbert is doing well and he's grown quite a bit. He's now about 7 or 8 years old. He also has 2 new little brothers (humans, not tortoises!) since I was here in 2014. My first son was born in 2015 and my second son was born this past August. They love their big brother Gilbert.

As one of you pointed out when I first constructed his underground home, I had to expand it quite a bit. In October 2017 I reconstructed the doorway and entrance tunnel and widened it by about 10". Over the years I've dug and shop-vac'd probably well over half a cubic yard of dirt from the entrance of his burrow as he keeps on digging. Last time I had the access hatch over his house open (October 2017) I got a tape measure about 8 feet down the tunnel he's excavated. So he's spending his time underneath the grass well forward of the entrance to his house.

I'll attach some photos showing his growth from the day we adopted him on May 21, 2014 to today's date, January 16, 2019. The last photo of him sitting in his doorway eating kale & carrots is from today.

In the photos with him on the gray slate patio tiles, note that the tiles are all 16" X 16". In the photo with my foot for scale from October 20, 2018, my bare foot is 10.5" heel to toe. I'll have to get a current photo of him on the same gray slate tiles. Like I said, he's grown quite a bit!!!
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Thanks for coming back to update! Congratulations on your sons! I love Gilbert's enclosure! Do you still heat it?