Hatchlings.

[Markw84]

Ive been thinking the exact same today regarding your 2nd paragraph.

What I'm struggling to understand is this.....

If you had 2 torts from the same clutch, grew one slow and one fast and both filled over the same period of time then the one that grew faster would more likely show pyramiding because the new keratin growth could be pushing beyond the filling, this causing the downward bone growth. Think what I'm saying is, is there a point where we can grow them faster than the filling, are we playing catch up when they grow too fast, hence the variation form none to very minor pyramiding within the same clutch and conditions. Are we on the brink with keratin growth to filling.

I need to think about this more, it's opened a lot of new thoughts.

Do we have a picture of the vertebrals when not filled?
I have a 3 month old burred in the garden, will that show us?

Again, I don't know here, so don't want to sound like I am stating fact. However, it seems to me, that the vertebrals are not "open" as they are the backbone of the tortoise. Certainly more pliable in a hatchling, but I would think fully formed and intact along the length. The costals, on the other hand, are modified ribs and go through a process of ossification to fill in to create a complete bony box.

So the way the spine grows from the beginning will set a direct to the vertebral bone plate as it grows. Since the seams are in a different location than the scute edges, and the areolae of the scute is fixed to its respective place on the vertebral bone, the bone itself is being deflected into a "tipped" plane.

 

[Anyfoot]

Again, I don't know here, so don't want to sound like I am stating fact. However, it seems to me, that the vertebrals are not "open" as they are the backbone of the tortoise. Certainly more pliable in a hatchling, but I would think fully formed and intact along the length. The costals, on the other hand, are modified ribs and go through a process of ossification to fill in to create a complete bony box.

So the way the spine grows from the beginning will set a direct to the vertebral bone plate as it grows. Since the seams are in a different location than the scute edges, and the areolae of the scute is fixed to its respective place on the vertebral bone, the bone itself is being deflected into a "tipped" plane.

Ok, I'm officially confused.
I keep looking back at those two tort carcasses you posted. I need to make sure I'm understanding it correctly.
What are the costal areola attached too?
Must be bone surely.

 

[Markw84]

Ok, I'm officially confused.
I keep looking back at those two tort carcasses you posted. I need to make sure I'm understanding it correctly.
What are the costal areola attached too?
Must be bone surely.

The areolae of the costals stay high - where the bone is wider when young. Notice how most all growth in costals is below the areolae. Most all growth on marginals is on top. Vertebrals tend to grow more uniformly.

 

[Anyfoot]

It's been very hot this weekend and it's forcast for the week, reached 30°c/86f. Kind of scares me a bit with the babies maybe overheating, I'm not used to having to deal with this problem. Anyway, I put my 3month+ and 7month+ babies out, and not once would they go in the sun, they stopped under the mats I laid across the makeshift enclosure, whether it was for security or to keep cooler I don't know. I even tried to copes them out with fruit but no, soon as I put a mat over the fruit area they were on it.
I soaked them all before putting them back indoors for piece of mind.

 

[xirxes]

For heat: put a 80% shade cloth over area up at your head height so you can walk under, then place a solid shade such as plywood or foam board to your liking if still too hot on ground for your liking.

86 pretty cool still.

 

[allegraf]

P**s Purple Prince it is, I'll call him '3P' for short. Oh wait a minute I'm not keeping any more.

Allegra, do you have any photos of around 3 month olds from above view. I want to see how fast mine are growing compared to others. Even if I feed only weeds which I do for first 4 wks they seem to grow faster than what I'm seeing with others. Maybe soaking is excelling growth.

Mine grow slow like molasses. I don't feed enough protein I think. I don't have any pics of three month olds sorry I get too many to bother. They look amazing! Keep P3!

 

[Anyfoot]

For heat: put a 80% shade cloth over area up at your head height so you can walk under, then place a solid shade such as plywood or foam board to your liking if still too hot on ground for your liking.

86 pretty cool still.

86 is pretty cool, your having a laugh man. I can't cope, it's mega hot and humid, just walking about and sweating like a pig. I can't get my head around how people live in these temps, it's ok for a 2 wk holiday, but that's it. Working in it is a nightmare, it makes me can't be arsed to do anything.
My torts won't even come out of their enclosure, think they must be scared of sweating. .

 

[William Lee Kohler]

It's been very hot this weekend and it's forcast for the week, reached 30°c/86f. Kind of scares me a bit with the babies maybe overheating, I'm not used to having to deal with this problem. Anyway, I put my 3month+ and 7month+ babies out, and not once would they go in the sun, they stopped under the mats I laid across the makeshift enclosure, whether it was for security or to keep cooler I don't know. I even tried to copes them out with fruit but no, soon as I put a mat over the fruit area they were on it.
I soaked them all before putting them back indoors for piece of mind.
View attachment 210667 View attachment 210668 View attachment 210669

Could they be shy/hiding because of being put into a strange place instead of their normal home? That is normal defensive behavior for all little ones isn't it?

 

[Anyfoot]

Could they be shy/hiding because of being put into a strange place instead of their normal home? That is normal defensive behavior for all little ones isn't it?

Could be that.

 

[xirxes]

Just for reference: all week we were between 96F and 102F mid day!

Even in that temp, with 20% humidity, with 80% shade cloth, then a solid shade, in an insulated and 3/4 covered trough, the air temp never got over 86F and ground temps inside enclosure were 79-82F.

So you can definitely do it, it won't get any warmer than that.

I work outside in that all day, California Living mate.

 

[Anyfoot]

A few days back I found this hatchlings, I'd given up on this egg but left it be. Totally convinced myself it was a dud. This one is a Brazilian, you can see the plastron is very dark. Don't know why but most of my babies lack the color that most achieve. Maybe it's because over here in the UK selective breeding is not as advanced, just a guess.

 

[JSWallace]

A few days back I found this hatchlings, I'd given up on this egg but left it be. Totally convinced myself it was a dud. This one is a Brazilian, you can see the plastron is very dark. Don't know why but most of my babies lack the color that most achieve. Maybe it's because over here in the UK selective breeding is not as advanced, just a guess.
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Selective breeding or not it looks a mighty fine hatchling!! What do you do with them all?

 

[Anyfoot]

Selective breeding or not it looks a mighty fine hatchling!! What do you do with them all?

For now, I have got every baby I hatched, the plan is to raise them to around a yr old then find new homes for them.

 

[William Lee Kohler]

A few days back I found this hatchlings, I'd given up on this egg but left it be. Totally convinced myself it was a dud. This one is a Brazilian, you can see the plastron is very dark. Don't know why but most of my babies lack the color that most achieve. Maybe it's because over here in the UK selective breeding is not as advanced, just a guess.
View attachment 211098 View attachment 211099 View attachment 211101

And what a perfectly beautiful little one you got. So glad you didn't throw him out.

 

[Redstrike]

How long did it take the late emerger to hatch? Curious if you had a count in days?

 

[Anyfoot]

How long did it take the late emerger to hatch? Curious if you had a count in days?

Just looked, it took 198 days. I candled it 2 weeks ago and the bottom 1/4 of the egg was dark , top 3/4 looked like light was shining through, so I was ready to bin it, I chipped a bit of egg shell away to reveal a baby, I could see that the baby only took half the egg up, that's why light shone through. That's the last time I tamper with an egg.

 

[JSWallace]

For now, I have got every baby I hatched, the plan is to raise them to around a yr old then find new homes for them.

Ah ok. How many have you got?

 

[Anyfoot]

Ah ok. How many have you got?

32

 

[JSWallace]

32

Oh wow, that's quite a lot!! How easy will it be to find homed for them all?

 

[Anyfoot]

Oh wow, that's quite a lot!! How easy will it be to find homed for them all?

Not sure, this is something I have to look into.