Grazing vs feeding

[Alaskamike]

Feeding to torts vs " grazing"
I have a question maybe some of you more experienced keepers can comment on.

My torts all live outside in a planted enclosure pretty much year round. They have a heated shed for night I keep at 85f. I planted in there stuff I knew was edible , but over the summer allot of other weeds came up. Of course.

There is so much to eat the barley make a dent in it cause they are still young. 10 mos - 2 yr.

My question is.....
Do torts naturally make good choices on what they graze on? I know if you feed them things are different, as you make the choice for them , but when I observe them grazing they seem to take "a bite of this and a bite of that" as they move around. They choose.

I've not removed the unplanted weed crop and noticed some things they eat - others they leave alone. Do any of you remove what might be toxic in your grazing yards or do you just trust the torts to know the difference.

Thanks.
Mike

 

[Yvonne G]

If I lived in the same geographical area that my species of tortoise comes from, I would trust them to eat what was good for them. But since I don't, I remove anything that I know to be toxic, such as oleander. I really don't have the same problem as you, because I sort of live in a desert and really the only thing that comes up that isn't planted by me are springtime-after-the-rain weeds. Most of them are edible.

Sometimes a tortoise will take a bite of a toxic plant and not take any more. This leads me to believe the plant must put off some sort of taste or signal to the 'eater' that they shouldn't eat it.

I have seen my tortoises turn their noses up at the same weeds that the horse turns her nose up at. I think it all has to do with palatability.

 

[Neal]

I would recommend making removing as much of the toxic plants as you can. In my experience, yes, tortoises seem to make good decisions about not eating toxic plants. As an example, I have a neighbor with huge oleander plants along our shared wall. Leaves and flowers fall into my yard all the time. Though I try to clean up as much as I can, I can't be back there 24/7 to make sure they don't eat any of it. So, I've seen them graze by areas with the oleander leaves many times, but I have never seen them sniff them or pay any attention to them.

Although they SEEM to make good decisions about not eating toxic plants, I don't let this allow me to become complacent. I have heard horror stories from other keepers and I know that not all tortoises will make those good decisions. So, it's always best to be aggressive about removing the toxic plants, in my opinion, and make every reasonable effort to provide a safe habitat for your tortoises.

 

[Alaskamike]

Thanks. I suspect that toxic plants do give off some warning smell. In evolutionary terms , if they didn't , animals would eat them get sick and die. It is also true that animals tend to take little nibbles at questionable new food. If they get upset tummy or burning mouth that's the last time they will touch it. Survival I suppose.

There's one particulate obnoxious broadleaf that invades the tort yard like crazy here. Never seen one bite out of it and I've looked carefully. Guess I'll still try and remove what I can.
Here's a picture of it

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

Looks like some sort of creeping charlie... why won't that stuff just stop stalking me??
I go for grazing. I try and weed out everything I can, that I know is toxic, or even if it's just 'iffy'. I'm not taking chances, and I really don't trust either of my torts with the full responsibility to avoid everything bad

 

[J.P.]

@Alaskamike;
from the subject, I thought this was about comparing the merrits of grazing vs. feeding. lol.

Anyway, since we are here, do your torts eat 100% by grazing or do they still get fed? My ultimate goal is to have a herd of leopards going free range. I want to know whether that is feasible or if feeding would still be required.

pardon me if my question is a bit off topic

 

[Tom]

I suspect that toxic plants do give off some warning smell. In evolutionary terms , if they didn't , animals would eat them get sick and die.

Mike the problem with this theory is that our torts didn't evolve with some of the plants we are now exposing them to. I recently did a thread on a dead Galapagos tortoise and a sick Aldabran that had eaten some new toxic decorative plants. We simply cannot assume they won't eat the bad stuff. I've frequently told the story of having to literally remove an oleander leaf from the mouth of one of my tortoises as it attempted to eat one after my neighbor trimmed his bushes next door and some fell over to my side. If I hadn't been there and seen it, I would have been wondering why my tort suddenly died for no apparent reason. He lived, but I doubt he would have had I not been there to literally snatch it out of his mouth and prevent him from eating the rest of the fallen leaves.

Most torts will pick their favorite foods and favor those. If you plant a row of lettuces next to a row of healthy delectable weeds, most of our torts will mow down the row of lettuce first if given the choice.

Yes they have survived for millions of years in the wild without our help. But our yards, greenhouses and lanais, are not the wild, and this is not their country of origin. They did not live in the wild for all those millions of years on this continent, with this assortment of plants. I do think we need to intervene and make sure they get what they need, and not necessarily what they want.

 

[Alaskamike]

Mike the problem with this theory is that our torts didn't evolve with some of the plants we are now exposing them to. I recently did a thread on a dead Galapagos tortoise and a sick Aldabran that had eaten some new toxic decorative plants. We simply cannot assume they won't eat the bad stuff. I've frequently told the story of having to literally remove an oleander leaf from the mouth of one of my tortoises as it attempted to eat one after my neighbor trimmed his bushes next door and some fell over to my side. If I hadn't been there and seen it, I would have been wondering why my tort suddenly died for no apparent reason. He lived, but I doubt he would have had I not been there to literally snatch it out of his mouth and prevent him from eating the rest of the fallen leaves.

Most torts will pick their favorite foods and favor those. If you plant a row of lettuces next to a row of healthy delectable weeds, most of our torts will mow down the row of lettuce first if given the choice.

Yes they have survived for millions of years in the wild without our help. But our yards, greenhouses and lanais, are not the wild, and this is not their country of origin. They did not live in the wild for all those millions of years on this continent, with this assortment of plants. I do think we need to intervene and make sure they get what they need, and not necessarily what they want.

Good information and observation.
Your logic is sound. Though mine certainly do pick & choose you are right , they will eat things dangerous. I pulled a paint chip from the mouth of
My baby leopard once.
Your statement about evolutionary environmental adaptation makes sense.

 

[Alaskamike]

@Alaskamike;
from the subject, I thought this was about comparing the merrits of grazing vs. feeding. lol.

Anyway, since we are here, do your torts eat 100% by grazing or do they still get fed? My ultimate goal is to have a herd of leopards going free range. I want to know whether that is feasible or if feeding would still be required.

pardon me if my question is a bit off topic

No. That is the topic .
I use both. There is enough in their yard to eat without feeding , however I add variety with feeding also. If I'm gone for a few days I know they are fine with food & water in their pen / yard area - heated hide boxes , a screen cover for predators.

I believe " free range" is possible in southern warm areas. Diligence in removing toxic things from the yard would be wise ( see Toms note) Planting a big variety of edibles too. I have cuttle bones screwed to stakes in their pen to gnaw on .

I see merits to both in health.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I agree that this sounds like great advice. Kind of even a no brainer. However I've raised RF torts in my yard and in my pens for about eleven years and no one has ever been ill...Apart from new torts arriving already sick. They will roam the yard when allowed to do so and seem to know exactly what to eat. I don't think I live very far away, Mike. Not for enough that our plants wouldn't be exactly the same. My back yard is less than 1/4 of an acre, but that is still too large for me to hand select weeds to pick. And keep it picked. The pens are another story. I only allow plants to grow in them that I have selected and grown myself. Overhanging Hibiscus leaves has been my staple. There is Hibiscus, Bermuda grass and Pinto Peanut vine in the pens actively growing. I offer other foods once a day as well.

 

[Tom]

My ultimate goal is to have a herd of leopards going free range. I want to know whether that is feasible or if feeding would still be required.

For about 5 months of every year, over our "winter" rainy season, I don't "feed" any of my outdoor sulcatas. So many weeds and wild grasses grow in their enclosures that they literally just walk right by any "food" that I leave out for them.

With the right rotating crop area strategies, there is no reason why a herd of tortoises could not be allowed to graze freely all year and never be "fed". One way that was suggested by Yvonne several years ago was to have a central enclosure with three large separate offshoots. Allow the tortoise to graze in one at a time while the other two grow and recover. Rotate the tortoises to new areas as needed. You'd need a large enough area to support the number of hungry mouths you've got, but it could be done.

 

[Alaskamike]

Discovered the weed I pictured above is Pennywort. Very edible for animals and good for people too
Guess I'll leave it alone, even though my torts haven't yet grazed on it
http://www.eattheweeds.com/a-pennywort-for-your-thoughts-2/
Here's a link to info on it