good times for bad, storing the backyard edibles for winter use

Kapidolo Farms

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Hi,

I'm just thinking maybe someone has already invented this wheel?

I have stayed pretty much with a Romaine centric diet in that it is inexpensive and readily available year round. Romain makes up, about 50% (by volume) of the wet basis diet fed out.

To that I still use much escarole, radicchio and chicory (Santa Barbara Mix), which brings us us to 100% in terms of volume. I them ad other things that do not change the volume, but fill in the space between the pieces of Romain and SBM.

When the mulberry angel can help, I feed mulberry exclusively for a few days, then jump back to the above mentioned mix. That mix also gets cut cactus pad (now instead of aloe), some dried chopped grass and the Layena chicken food or Mazuri LS for rounding out the nutrients, amongst many other seasonal and abundant things to ad variety.

So the interest for the discussion is what about preserving these things that come in an overabundance and then scarcity like cactus pad, mulberry leaves etc. I have read about freezing, but that does not work well for me for many reasons.

I have now dried several pounds of mulberry and when mixed back into the diet of wet greens (romaine and SBM) it is eaten no problem, much like the dried grass.

Does anyone have a good practice for drying opuntia cactus pads? I am trying a couple of things now - thin slices, mashed and spread out (like fruit leather) and small cubes. The bits that are mostly dry are eaten no problem. I'm just thinking maybe someone has already invented this wheel? What do you do?
 

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A couple years ago, I bought one of those appliances that sucks the air out of a food storage bag and then seals it. I can't think of the name of them at this time. I chopped cactus up in little Cubs and some in chunks and sealed it with the sealer. I did freeze it. When used, it came out great. I bought a cheap on, so the first time I used it, I had a 5 pound box of cactus I was doing, the sealing part stopped working, so I had to return it and haven't replaced it yet. I would imagine that if you didn't want to freeze it, it would last a long time in a cool dark place as the air is taken out of the bag. Get a good one though, not a cheap one. I also tried drying cactus in the oven. I cut it in strips and baked it at 200 for hours. I cant remember how long. It worked okay, but I think the cactus needs to be thinner and baked longer then what I had done. Sorry I don't have all the delta it's, it's been a couple years.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Hi Barb,

I've been looking over past posts regarding opuntia, and found a thread where you described using dehydrated bits that you could moisten called "Tortoise Treats". Do you still use that or has it fallen out of your favor. I'll send a PM.
 

Careym13

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A couple years ago, I bought one of those appliances that sucks the air out of a food storage bag and then seals it. I can't think of the name of them at this time. I chopped cactus up in little Cubs and some in chunks and sealed it with the sealer. I did freeze it. When used, it came out great. I bought a cheap on, so the first time I used it, I had a 5 pound box of cactus I was doing, the sealing part stopped working, so I had to return it and haven't replaced it yet. I would imagine that if you didn't want to freeze it, it would last a long time in a cool dark place as the air is taken out of the bag. Get a good one though, not a cheap one. I also tried drying cactus in the oven. I cut it in strips and baked it at 200 for hours. I cant remember how long. It worked okay, but I think the cactus needs to be thinner and baked longer then what I had done. Sorry I don't have all the delta it's, it's been a couple years.
I have several large cactus pads right now that I need to do something with because it is more than my two little ones can eat. I think I'll try your baking method. How thin would you suggest I cut the strips?
 

Neal

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I apologize my question is not directly related to the topic, but does drying foods change its nutritional properties?

I am recalling something from the Fife's leopard tortoise book where he describes the protein content for dried dandelion greens is significantly higher than fresh or "wet" greens. It's been awhile since I've read it and it's not right in front of me so maybe my memory is wrong.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Neal, this will of coarse make sense when fleshed out.

No miracle occurs during drying, the dandelion greens do not somehow make themselves more protein rich when cut off from their vascular fluids and dried. The removal of water makes the relative protein content go up. So one pound of wet dandelion greens has x protein, and that same quantity of leaves when dry has the same amount of protein, but less water, so the relative value for protein goes up.

Like putting a teaspoon of sugar in a glass of water, then letting the water evaporate, the amount of sugar was constant.

Other nutrients will experience the same kind of concentration, and depending on how the item is dried and how long it is stored may even see a depletion in nutrient content.

IMO, a very on topic question.
 

Neal

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Ah..the term "relative" is the key word I missed. Good explanation and example, it's clear to me now. Thx.
 

Anyfoot

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Neal, this will of coarse make sense when fleshed out.

No miracle occurs during drying, the dandelion greens do not somehow make themselves more protein rich when cut off from their vascular fluids and dried. The removal of water makes the relative protein content go up. So one pound of wet dandelion greens has x protein, and that same quantity of leaves when dry has the same amount of protein, but less water, so the relative value for protein goes up.

Like putting a teaspoon of sugar in a glass of water, then letting the water evaporate, the amount of sugar was constant.

Other nutrients will experience the same kind of concentration, and depending on how the item is dried and how long it is stored may even see a depletion in nutrient content.

IMO, a very on topic question.
Have you tried freezing a cactus pad in water. Not dry freezing. But basically in a big ice cube. I only have 3 pads so can't experiment. I need to plant them.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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No I had not tried that @Anyfoot at least in part the idea is to reduce storage requirements not increase them. Drying is somewhat passive. A smallish pad went from 172 grams to 14 grams overnight when dried by no other source of heat or air movement than the coil on my refrigerator's fan. That's roughly 92% water content.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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...WAIT! I thought we were trying to feed your tortoise during the winter months, not YOU!!!
I taste test many things I feed the tortoises. I noticed they don't care for mulberry when it losses its sweetness.

I tried some of the Cape Honeysuckle flowers too, flowers actually are pretty bland if not floral in odor or really colorful, I don't think tortoises would eat them.

Back to the opuntia, I like it dried more than fresh, but that might be the texture. I offered some to a few people to try it out, but they have so far not responded.

If a few people want to PM me their mailing address I'll send you a small amount, and see if it works out for your animals. I've crumpled it up on top of the salad I make, and/or mix it in when I have many diverse ingredients.
 

Anyfoot

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This is an intriguing subject.
A while back I was thinking if I could dry out certain foods(lets just stick with dandelion for now). Could i pellet it for storage, then re hydrate it as fed.
If this was possible do you think the hydration would reach back to its original % of water.
Also the fact that protein etc has been condensed through the drying process, is there to much protein relative to mass. What i'm trying to say would the volume of a dried pellet have to have something with less protein in it added to bring the balance back.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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This is an intriguing subject.
A while back I was thinking if I could dry out certain foods(lets just stick with dandelion for now). Could i pellet it for storage, then re hydrate it as fed.
If this was possible do you think the hydration would reach back to its original % of water.
Also the fact that protein etc has been condensed through the drying process, is there to much protein relative to mass. What i'm trying to say would the volume of a dried pellet have to have something with less protein in it added to bring the balance back.
I think if you were going to the effort to pellet the item, then you might mix in some grasses with substantially less protein, and make a pellet of mixed plant products. That is essentially what the Zoomed Grassland diet is. I find their diet the best for many reasons.

Also, re-wetting, I do this my using the dried plant things with wet plants things. Escarole and romaine are most frequently used, they are always readily available for me.

I could post a small amount of the dried cactus to you, I don't know what agricultural inspectors may think of the idea, it could be labeled as spices?
 

Anyfoot

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I think if you were going to the effort to pellet the item, then you might mix in some grasses with substantially less protein, and make a pellet of mixed plant products. That is essentially what the Zoomed Grassland diet is. I find their diet the best for many reasons.

Also, re-wetting, I do this my using the dried plant things with wet plants things. Escarole and romaine are most frequently used, they are always readily available for me.

I could post a small amount of the dried cactus to you, I don't know what agricultural inspectors may think of the idea, it could be labeled as spices?
Have you ever come across any pellet machines?(are they called briquette machines)Do they exist? . I know they exist for the carp pellet industry.(massive over here) But do they exist on a small scale for the hobbyist.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Yeah, there are a couple of considerations. In essence pellet machines are a screw and a plate that the screw drives things through. The plate has holes the diameter of the pellets. Basically a meat grinder but with more power. Often done under pressure with steam. The heat of the compression/friction for some products is enough to release water from what is being pelleted to bind the items into a pellet. The dryer the items the greater the pressure needed to bind them into a pellet. Almost always some sort of drying process is required. I worked in a pasta factory, we had all kinds of small machines that did this for pilot recipes. Pasta is essentially a pellet.
 

Anyfoot

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Yeah, there are a couple of considerations. In essence pellet machines are a screw and a plate that the screw drives things through. The plate has holes the diameter of the pellets. Basically a meat grinder but with more power. Often done under pressure with steam. The heat of the compression/friction for some products is enough to release water from what is being pelleted to bind the items into a pellet. The dryer the items the greater the pressure needed to bind them into a pellet. Almost always some sort of drying process is required. I worked in a pasta factory, we had all kinds of small machines that did this for pilot recipes. Pasta is essentially a pellet.
Would it be possible to do it with a mince meat grinder? You can buy manual ones relatively cheap, I have an electric one because my dad is a retired butcher.
 

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The silkworm cultivators have a system for this: they blanche the leaves in boiling water, and dry and freeze them. There's a pdf I saved somewhere; I'll see if I can find it.
 

Anyfoot

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I think if you were going to the effort to pellet the item, then you might mix in some grasses with substantially less protein, and make a pellet of mixed plant products. That is essentially what the Zoomed Grassland diet is. I find their diet the best for many reasons.

Also, re-wetting, I do this my using the dried plant things with wet plants things. Escarole and romaine are most frequently used, they are always readily available for me.

I could post a small amount of the dried cactus to you, I don't know what agricultural inspectors may think of the idea, it could be labeled as spices?
@Will. Thanks for your offer. I'm going to sacrifice one of these pads I fetched back from Majorca. This will save us from getting banged up for cacti smuggling.:D Anyway my smallest pad is 613 grams. How do I dry this pad out, its been on the side now for 7 days and still looks the same(fresh).
 

Kapidolo Farms

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@Will. Thanks for your offer. I'm going to sacrifice one of these pads I fetched back from Majorca. This will save us from getting banged up for cacti smuggling.:D Anyway my smallest pad is 613 grams. How do I dry this pad out, its been on the side now for 7 days and still looks the same(fresh).
I used the slicer part of a regular grater.
 

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