Female tortoise bullies male

Jessicann

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I've had my male tortoise for over a year and he's always been a decently active guy - doesn't do a whole lot but eats fine, appears healthy, lays out in the sun, etc. Before I knew better, I got a second tortoise, this time a female, who, right from the start, was far more active than my male ever was. I've been keeping them in the same enclosure for a couple of months (large tank, not sure of the exact size, plenty of spots to hide, etc.) and all has been going well besides the fact that my female seems to bully the male every once in a while. It's nothing that i'm too concerned about, as she doesn't bite him/cause injuries, and both of them get plenty of food and seem totally healthy, and can get away from each other when they want to. When I take them outside, the male even follows the female around most of the time, as she's always the first to decide to go exploring. When they're in their tank, the female will just push past the male, climb over him, etc. and he just goes in his shell and hides for a while, until she's out of the way. She's very dominant over him which just seems totally out of the norm, based on what i've been reading. I've never seen them mate, or even seen the male try to make an attempt (they live in my room with me and it's definitely something i'd notice if I was around). Is this behavior normal? Is there a reason my female is so pushy? I'm 100% positive of their genders, and both are ~5-6 years old.
 

Tom

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Totally normal and totally unacceptable. They need to be separated. That is a very stressful existence for them. Most tortoises should not be housed in pairs and especially not russians. Sexes make no difference in this species. They can sometimes get along in groups in large outdoor enclosures, but even that fails sometimes. They are a very scrappy species. Here is a thread explaining it in more depth:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/pairs.34837/
 

Levi the Leopard

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I know you said you aren't too concerned but you should be.

It is normal for Russians to act feisty in captivity when housed in an enclosure that is too small. A tank is in that category.

The reason she is pushy is because she wants him out of her territory and is making it clear to him.

My suggestions:
Create a large (+10'x 10') outdoor enclosure that is heavily planted with multiple sight barriers and hides, then try your luck at housing them together that way.

Separate them. Let them each rule their own kingdom and enjoy them that way.

If you try to house them together in the big outdoor pen, be prepared to separate them. You might like the idea, they might not. As it stands now, they don't like "pair" living.
 

dmmj

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If they were mine, I would separate, sometimes they can live together, most of the time they can't. The other tortoise does mind the bullying.
 

G_Vincey

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This is not a suggestion but a question.
Do you think its possible to slowly introduce them, like 20 minutes at a time then increase to 30 mins the next time etc and see if they take to each other that way?
My Russian is way to young but one day I would love to give him a girlfriend, it saddens me that he will be alone forever.
 

tortoise5643

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Tortoises don't mind being alone. They don't enjoy companionship. There are a few exceptions, but Russians are pretty much the opposite of those exceptions as they are very aggressive. They will either need a huge, outdoor cage with 2+ females or they will need to be separated.
 

G_Vincey

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Sad times.. But thanks for explaining, that has bought up to more questions though. What is the best mix for Russians groups, in terms of ratios of female to male. Is it 2 females to 1 male or does 4 females and 2 males work? Please note I have no interest in breeding, I do however want another tortoise, so would like to know the best mixes, if any?
Also, when hatchlings are born, are they housed together or separated? and are they housed with their mother when first born?
 

tortoise5643

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A 1 male to 3 female ratio in a large cage usually works well. Also a 2 male 5 female ratio should work well too. Hatchlings can be together but not with parents until they're bigger. The parents will bully them and be aggressive as they are to each other but it may kill such a small tortoise quickly. And since the baby wouldn't be mature he probably wouldn't fight or defend himself, so no definitly shouldn't house them together.
 

G_Vincey

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Very interesting.. Thank you for clearing that up.. So I would have to get Theo 3 girlfriends.. Hmmmmmm..
So do the parents not realise that its their babies and therefore bully them etc. or do the parents know and just don't care. Sorry I know your not a tortoise but maybe you know..
 

leigti

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I think in the wild tortoises just lay eggs and walk away. They don't care for the young so if they see one to them it's just another Tortoise, they don't recognize "family" :)
 

johnsonnboswell

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They don't have a concept of solitude, family, friend or girlfriend. Males are programmed for opportunist sex and for traveling to increase those opportunities. They understand competition for precious resources & aggressively try to eliminate competition.
 

G_Vincey

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All makes sense now.. Thanks guys.. So realistically he doesn't want 1 girlfriend or 3.. He just wants to eat, bask, climb and burrow..
 

dmmj

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Bingo, if you have no interest in breeding keeping each tortoise separate is the best way to go.
 

G_Vincey

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Bingo, if you have no interest in breeding keeping each tortoise separate is the best way to go.
Well my tort is young and I'm new, so breeding is definitely not for me yet. I would like to go through that experience at some point though.. But yeah, separately sounds good to me. If being kept separate, is 1 male and 1 female a good ratio or do you still need 3:1?
 

dmmj

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1 and 1 is a bad idea, remember in the wild they only encounter a female, then she moves on, in captivity they have 24 hour access, heaven for the male hell for the female.
 

G_Vincey

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1 and 1 is a bad idea, remember in the wild they only encounter a female, then she moves on, in captivity they have 24 hour access, heaven for the male hell for the female.

Good point.. But my question was, is 1 and 1 a bad idea if they are in separate enclosures?
 

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