Eye Concerns - Possible Injury

[NewTortMom0417]

I have a 8-10 week old Horsfield Tortoise hatchling! He/she is doing everything as I would hope and expect: eating, exploring, napping, basking, soaking, pooping, hiding, etc. He/she got an eye injury a week or so ago and now he/she keeps BOTH eyes shut. I know it isn't dehydration or sickness as he eats like a horse, several times a day. I took him to the vet today, they gave him vitamin A/D injections and flushed his eyes out (my biggest concern was something could have been lodged in his eyes still). I also used the antibiotic ointment recommended here with artificial tears, but he hasn't opened this eyes today, yesterday, there was a slight sliver.

His substrate is coco coir + organic top soil. I soak him every morning for 15-30 minutes under his UVB + heat mercery vapor light. His warm side is 100 degrees were he basks, 90 where he doesn't and the humidity ranges from 60-70% every day. The cool side is 78 degrees. He has a cuttlebone in his enclosure, eats organic spring greens, tortoise weeds grown the from Carolina Pet Supply (the Russian Tortoise mix) and I sprinkle his food with TNT a couple times a week. I also tired the carrot baby food soak, but he HATED IT.

What am I missing? I have read this forum extensively for the 4 weeks we have owned him, I am doing my absolute best to provide him with the best care possible, but this eye situation is really worrying me. Could you please let me know your thoughts?

 

[teresaf]

I don't know how an injury to one eye would affect both eyes. Most likely cause is either a respiratory infection because temperatures are too low on the cool side or there is a coil bulb involved. Verify that you don't have one of those button stick on thermometer/hygrometers...they are inconsistent enough(especially in high humidity applications) to cause your 78 degree reading to actually be 74 or less. I use a couple of these from Amazon. They have probes on the end of a wire that you put inside the tank or enclosure and the actual mechanism stays outside the enclosure at room temperature. If you get two or three then you can leave them in and not have to worry about the different temperatures inside the enclosure. Getting more than one also keeps your thermometers honest. if two of them resd crazy numbers that are the same then chances are they're right and you should do something about it right now.
We've seen where some coil bulbs will cause blindness in torts. If you have any kind of coil bulb you need to turn it off immediately.

 

[Taylor T.]

If your vet ever wants to give your tortoise a Vitamin A shot again, politely decline. They often cause more trouble than they help.

 

[Markw84]

I have a 8-10 week old Horsfield Tortoise hatchling! He/she is doing everything as I would hope and expect: eating, exploring, napping, basking, soaking, pooping, hiding, etc. He/she got an eye injury a week or so ago and now he/she keeps BOTH eyes shut. I know it isn't dehydration or sickness as he eats like a horse, several times a day. I took him to the vet today, they gave him vitamin A/D injections and flushed his eyes out (my biggest concern was something could have been lodged in his eyes still). I also used the antibiotic ointment recommended here with artificial tears, but he hasn't opened this eyes today, yesterday, there was a slight sliver.

His substrate is coco coir + organic top soil. I soak him every morning for 15-30 minutes under his UVB + heat mercery vapor light. His warm side is 100 degrees were he basks, 90 where he doesn't and the humidity ranges from 60-70% every day. The cool side is 78 degrees. He has a cuttlebone in his enclosure, eats organic spring greens, tortoise weeds grown the from Carolina Pet Supply (the Russian Tortoise mix) and I sprinkle his food with TNT a couple times a week. I also tired the carrot baby food soak, but he HATED IT.

What am I missing? I have read this forum extensively for the 4 weeks we have owned him, I am doing my absolute best to provide him with the best care possible, but this eye situation is really worrying me. Could you please let me know your thoughts?

I can't imagine a vet giving a hatchling vitamin injection. If you tortoise is eating well, Vit A deficiency is rare with the good greens a tortoise would eat. It is quite common with aquatic turtle hatchlings, so maybe your vet doesn't have a lot of tortoise experience. But, having said that, what is the diet you are feeding? You said "eats like a horse" but eating what?? Let's see if we can rule out Vitamin A deficiency...

MVB lights can be very desiccating on a tortoise, especially hatchlings. They also put out pretty high UVB levels and must be mounted the correct distance. How high is yours mounted above tortoise level? What wattage is it? Let's see if we can rule out dry eyes, or UVB induced "snow blindness".

some substrates can also be irritating to eyes. The way Russians, horsefieldii love to dig in and cover themselves, that can be an issue. What are you using for substrate? Let see if we can rule out that for eye irritation.

Based upon the activity, eating, pooping you state, sounds like illness that would exhibit eye problems is probably not the case....

Could we also see a picture of your enclosure you have for him? And a picture of his eyes?

 

[NewTortMom0417]

I can't imagine a vet giving a hatchling vitamin injection. If you tortoise is eating well, Vit A deficiency is rare with the good greens a tortoise would eat. It is quite common with aquatic turtle hatchlings, so maybe your vet doesn't have a lot of tortoise experience. But, having said that, what is the diet you are feeding? You said "eats like a horse" but eating what?? Let's see if we can rule out Vitamin A deficiency...

MVB lights can be very desiccating on a tortoise, especially hatchlings. They also put out pretty high UVB levels and must be mounted the correct distance. How high is yours mounted above tortoise level? What wattage is it? Let's see if we can rule out dry eyes, or UVB induced "snow blindness".

some substrates can also be irritating to eyes. The way Russians, horsefieldii love to dig in and cover themselves, that can be an issue. What are you using for substrate? Let see if we can rule out that for eye irritation.

Based upon the activity, eating, pooping you state, sounds like illness that would exhibit eye problems is probably not the case....

Could we also see a picture of your enclosure you have for him? And a picture of his eyes?

HI Mark - Really helpful information - thank you! I have the bulb about 18 inches above his enclosure, its 125 watts - what should I be using instead? I am happy to run out right now and purchase it. He eats organic spring greens + weeds I have grown from seeds bought at Carolina Pet Supply + I use TNT about twice a week. I was soaking him in carrots, or at least trying and he hated it. I soak him every morning for 15-30 minutes and mist him several times during the day.

I use coconut coir + organic top soil as his substrate, he is a great digger and LOVES hiding at night.

Also, I assumed injury because it only affects one eye. I've seen him struggle to open the good eye, while keeping the 'bad' eye closed, but I think its too hard for him. He seems more comfortable keeping both eyes closed.

 

[NewTortMom0417]

If your vet ever wants to give your tortoise a Vitamin A shot again, politely decline. They often cause more trouble than they help.

Oh man, in all my research, I didn't learn this prior to taking him in, gosh, I hope I didn't harm him unnecessarily. Thank you for the invaluable advice!

 

[Yvonne G]

Get a 100 watt instead of the one you have. That's a pretty bright/hot light for a baby tortoise.

Soak him every morning and then pat his eyes dry and apply either one of these (you don't need both):



You can buy the one on the left at a feed store, and most pet stores sell the one on the right. Barring that, you can get either of them online.

 

[NewTortMom0417]

Get a 100 watt instead of the one you have. That's a pretty bright/hot light for a baby tortoise.

Soak him every morning and then pat his eyes dry and apply either one of these (you don't need both):

View attachment 210786 View attachment 210787

You can buy the one on the left at a feed store, and most pet stores sell the one on the right. Barring that, you can get either of them online.

Yes, I have the one on the left, Terramycin. Maybe I am applying it wrong? I just dab it on his eyes (since they are shut) once a day. Sometimes he rubs it in, sometimes he doesn't. I was also using artificial tears to help lubricate, hoping the debris would come out, all of that seemed to be working okay, but he still didn't open his eyes.

I just soaked and fed him, he opened his eyes a little more than yesterday (which was nothing at all), so maybe I am making traction. My other thought was maybe there is a cut and its just taking a little longer to heal? I have eye pictures, let me get them posted.

 

[NewTortMom0417]

His enclosure is temporary, but maybe I am causing harm? Its almost 3 feet by 1.5 feet and I keep it covered to trap in humidity (took it off for the photo). I am waiting for his raised flower bed to arrive, its been on back order. I hope these pictures help. Also, do you have a recommendation for how to find a good reptile vet in my area? I am north of Dallas, I do not want to take him back to the place we went yesterday.

He did gain a gram since his last weight in, which was about 5 days ago, I am hoping this is good?

 

[Markw84]

From all you're saying, the most likely issue seems to be that is just may be too dry under that light. Hatchling tortoises need humidity and that light you have is really desiccating and the eyes can dry and become irritated. Sounds like you are doing all the right things now. As Yvonne says, Keep up the soaks and eye drops and use a less powerful bulb if you stay with the MVB.

I believe it is underestimated how much dryness can effect a hatchlings eyes. Perhaps the most resilient tortoise there is - the sulcata - is also a burrowing species - like yours. In the wild there are virtually no known pathogenic problems with this species. Hardy and resistant, it is, however, very prone to eye issues. Damaged eyes and even blind tortoises are found due to the extreme dry conditions it often is forced to overcome. They thrive in the monsoon season and burrow to escape the drier times. But that often is not enough and "the crying tortoise" is the result.

Be sure to keep the humidity up in the enclosure. Under a MVB in an open top, humidity will drop to the teens easily.

 

[NewTortMom0417]

From all you're saying, the most likely issue seems to be that is just may be too dry under that light. Hatchling tortoises need humidity and that light you have is really desiccating and the eyes can dry and become irritated. Sounds like you are doing all the right things now. As Yvonne says, Keep up the soaks and eye drops and use a less powerful bulb if you stay with the MVB.

I believe it is underestimated how much dryness can effect a hatchlings eyes. Perhaps the most resilient tortoise there is - the sulcata - is also a burrowing species - like yours. In the wild there are virtually no known pathogenic problems with this species. Hardy and resistant, it is, however, very prone to eye issues. Damaged eyes and even blind tortoises are found due to the extreme dry conditions it often is forced to overcome. They thrive in the monsoon season and burrow to escape the drier times. But that often is not enough and "the crying tortoise" is the result.

Be sure to keep the humidity up in the enclosure. Under a MVB in an open top, humidity will drop to the teens easily.

Dryness sounds very reasonable. I will run out today and get a 100W bulb. I pour warm water into his enclosure each morning and since I work from home, mist throughout the day. I have been so worried about dehydration, I didn't even consider I have essentially ignored his eyes, but that could also explain why the artificial tears helped him so much. Poor guy. I am getting all of this remedied today.

So thankful for TFO, as I told my family, when we purchase a pet, we are going to go above and beyond to give it a wonderful, happy, healthy home. I've been so very worried about our baby. Thank you for the great advice.

 

[teresaf]

@Yvonne G hopefully can look at pictures and tell weather the swelling around the shoulders is normal...if he's retaining fluids that would account for the 1 gram weight increase. I hope it's normal. When I hear sick tort I look for things that otherwise I may not notice so it may be normal.

 

[NewTortMom0417]

@Yvonne G hopefully can look at pictures and tell weather the swelling around the shoulders is normal...if he's retaining fluids that would account for the 1 gram weight increase. I hope it's normal. When I hear sick tort I look for things that otherwise I may not notice so it may be normal.

I don't think his shoulders are swollen, but here are some pictures from closer to the time I got him home for comparison. I switched his bulb to 100W, WOW, HUGE bulb size difference. How far should I keep it above the enclosure? Right now, the stand is still 18 inches above his basking rock

 

[Markw84]

I don't think his shoulders are swollen, but here are some pictures from closer to the time I got him home for comparison. I switched his bulb to 100W, WOW, HUGE bulb size difference. How far should I keep it above the enclosure? Right now, the stand is still 18 inches above his basking rock

What type/brand of bulb did you get? Is it a Mercury Vapor Bulb (MVB)? Normally adjusting the height to get the temperature right in the basking area will also get the UVB in the correct exposure range. The only way to know for sure with the UVB is to use a meter designed to measure UV levels.

 

[NewTortMom0417]

What type/brand of bulb did you get? Is it a Mercury Vapor Bulb (MVB)? Normally adjusting the height to get the temperature right in the basking area will also get the UVB in the correct exposure range. The only way to know for sure with the UVB is to use a meter designed to measure UV levels.

I got the Zoo Med Powersun MVB 100W. It's still warming up, but the dial thermometer is reading 95 degrees. I will also use my temp gun within the next hour to get an accurate reading. Do you find big variation between the dial and gun? Mine can be anywhere from 5-10 degrees of variance. With the 125W bulb, there was a helpful guide for knowing how high to hang the bulb, I didn't see one with this 100W.

 

[Pearly]

I got the Zoo Med Powersun MVB 100W. It's still warming up, but the dial thermometer is reading 95 degrees. I will also use my temp gun within the next hour to get an accurate reading. Do you find big variation between the dial and gun? Mine can be anywhere from 5-10 degrees of variance. With the 125W bulb, there was a helpful guide for knowing how high to hang the bulb, I didn't see one with this 100W.

Dials are not very good. What I did at my beginnings was get a couple of cheap digital ones at walmart or someplace for 8-9$ a piece and put them in 2 opposite areas of your enclosure at substrate level so you can take a look at any time and have an idea of what things are like down there for him. Those also measure humidity. Your little baby tort is so cute! He may just have his eyes irritated from that very strong bulb. When you dab that ointment or lubricating drops try to very gently put your clean finger right below bottom lid and gently press moving it up and down and to the sides. Same with the top lid. This way more solution/oint is likely to get in under the lids. Hope the little one gets well very soon

 

[teresaf]

I got the Zoo Med Powersun MVB 100W. It's still warming up, but the dial thermometer is reading 95 degrees. I will also use my temp gun within the next hour to get an accurate reading. Do you find big variation between the dial and gun? Mine can be anywhere from 5-10 degrees of variance. With the 125W bulb, there was a helpful guide for knowing how high to hang the bulb, I didn't see one with this 100W.

The button type dial thermometer/hygrometer are very inconsistent in high humidity applications. You should never rely on those. I use a couple of these(see attachment)and I dangled the probes in different areas of my enclosure and I place the mechanism attached to them on top of my enclosure so that I can read the numbers at all times and verify the temperatures aren't getting too low or too high. The temp at the basking area under your light will tell you how close to put the light. If temp is 90 lower light. If it's 110 raise the light. Since you have to lift your lid in order to take your temperatures the actual reading will probably be a little higher than what you're reading. Now I'm wondering if the torts eye problems aren't a result of temperatures being too low(RI) or too high(dehydration).

 

[NewTortMom0417]

The button type dial thermometer/hygrometer are very inconsistent in high humidity applications. You should never rely on those. I use a couple of these(see attachment)and I dangled the probes in different areas of my enclosure and I place the mechanism attached to them on top of my enclosure so that I can read the numbers at all times and verify the temperatures aren't getting too low or too high. The temp at the basking area under your light will tell you how close to put the light. If temp is 90 lower light. If it's 110 raise the light. Since you have to lift your lid in order to take your temperatures the actual reading will probably be a little higher than what you're reading. Now I'm wondering if the torts eye problems aren't a result of temperatures being too low(RI) or too high(dehydration).

You may have missed where I said I also use a temperature gun.

 

[NewTortMom0417]

Dials are not very good. What I did at my beginnings was get a couple of cheap digital ones at walmart or someplace for 8-9$ a piece and put them in 2 opposite areas of your enclosure at substrate level so you can take a look at any time and have an idea of what things are like down there for him. Those also measure humidity. Your little baby tort is so cute! He may just have his eyes irritated from that very strong bulb. When you dab that ointment or lubricating drops try to very gently put your clean finger right below bottom lid and gently press moving it up and down and to the sides. Same with the top lid. This way more solution/oint is likely to get in under the lids. Hope the little one gets well very soon

Fellow Texan here - in the Dallas area, but I was born and raised in Austin and graduated from UT a decade ago! Wondering if you have advice on a vet? I am not going back to the one we saw yesterday, but my options are insanely limited.

I just took my baby outside, my grass is a little tall, but when I pushed it down, he opened his eyes halfway and excitedly explored, it was great. I can already see a difference in his eye health using the ointment twice today and changing the bulb. I am going to keep this up for the next few days!

 

[Yvonne G]

The bulb should be no closer than 12"from the tortoise's back.