Desert Tortoise sleeps too late

[JohnnyB65]

My Desert Tortoise doesn’t come out till after noon completely unlike the ones in the wild. I never see wild Desert Tortoises out after 12 and they usually are out well before 7 when it’s not so hot. I know of couple of burrows in the desert that I’ve visited and they usually just sit in the entrance with their back toward the outside where they remain for hours before disappearing inside. On really hot days in the three digits they are deep inside where it’s cool before noon.

He is never out in the morning and on those really hot days he just sits in the entrance for about a ½ hour and will not come out to eat. Sometimes when it gets hot early and temps go up to 112˚F he will not be out at all for days sometimes.

So what’s with my Tortoise? He has done this forever and I wonder if he’s depressed or if this is common for Tortoises in captivity. I sure wish he would come out in the morning because it would make my life so much easier.

 

[Yvonne G]

Does he have any grass to graze on?

 

[JohnnyB65]

Does he have any grass to graze on?

Yes Yvonne, He has his own little garden of stuff I purchased from special seed supposedly for Desert Tortoise

And he also likes the lawn and on one side I have allowed some weeds to grow that he especially likes.

If he comes out today I’ll try and get a photo of him eating the weeds he likes. I don’t know the name of the vegetation but I have seen it growing out in the desert with the wild Tortoises.

Oh you can see by the shadow that is after 2 PM when the wild ones are in their burrow.

 

[Yvonne G]

Well, it sounds like maybe he's on daylight savings time. As long as he's eating, gaining weight and looking healthy, I wouldn't worry about his strange antics.

 

[Maro2Bear]

Why would him coming out earlier be better for you? It's HIS schedule! Hahah. Is he getting in your way, or interfering with outdoor projects? He seems pretty content! At least he's coming out.

 

[Teodora'sDAD]

Why would him coming out earlier be better for you? It's HIS schedule! Hahah. Is he getting in your way, or interfering with outdoor projects? He seems pretty content! At least he's coming out.

I agree, I think he knows his dad will be out and about.. I see he even helps with the lawn mowing!

Honestly though im not sure how social desert tortoises are. maybe somebody else can help you out.

 

[JohnnyB65]

Why would him coming out earlier be better for you? It's HIS schedule! Hahah. Is he getting in your way, or interfering with outdoor projects? He seems pretty content! At least he's coming out.

Oh because he only eats between 2 and 3:30 PM and I can’t leave his food out because the birds will eat the whole thing and it’s kind of expensive bird food. LOL Also any food left out overnight gets eaten by other creatures like racoons or rodents

Someone has to be here between those times to assure he eats which makes it very difficult to get a caretaker to go on any trips. We recently took a trip to Colorado and had my daughter watch the house but she works and could not feed him while he was out and he didn’t have food for a week except for the lawn.

 

[JohnnyB65]

I was just out there trying to coax him out at 11 AM and I noticed that the entrance is pretty dark due to the shade from my neighbors pine trees. The sun doesn’t shine in until well into the afternoon so he maybe basing the time on the sun. I plan on replacing his burrow with a larger one and I guess I could move it to the other side of the property with morning sun, but that might present another whole set of problems.

I chose this spot because of the neighbors Pine Trees. The roots were cracking my block wall and I didn’t want any vegetation growing along this wall to water and attract the roots from causing farther damage. It also kind of helped during winter hibernation by not allowing the sun to warm up the burrow too quickly.

This is the weeds that I mention he liked before. I don't know what it is or if it is good for him, but he will pass up his own store bought food for it.

 

[JohnnyB65]

..... I see he even helps with the lawn mowing!....

Yes I try to keep him busy earning his keep.
here I have him testing my new flat free tires and he gave the OK so I didn't have to take them back.

 

[Yvonne G]

That weed is fine for him to eat. It grows naturally in the desert and is eaten by desert tortoises.

 

[JohnnyB65]

....Honestly though im not sure how social desert tortoises are. maybe somebody else can help you out.

I think he is very social. A few months ago we had a birthday party and he was running around with the kids like he was really enjoying it. I think he was genuinely excited. Unfortunately I didn’t even get a photo of the event, but a video would have been great. I’ll have to ask some of the other people present if they have any photos.

Here he is playing with my grandson and a toy raccoon.

And he likes sunning with the girls.

 

[Tom]

The difference in behaviors between yours and the wild ones can probably be accounted for by the differences in the environments. In the desert they can wander for miles, find just the right microclimate on just the right hill, and dig their burrow just the right way, then they can hang out as deep or as shallow as they want. Being underground really evens out the temps and helps them to avoid the extremes that occur above ground where yours lives. Deep underground the temperature averages 70-80, depending on depth, in the summer. It can be 112 above ground but it will be 80, 3-4' down. 20 feet down its likely closer to 70. So a wild tortoise needs to sun at the mouth of the burrow to warm up in the morning. This only takes a short while since they didn't get all that cool over night and then they avoid the heat of midday by staying underground.

Your tortoise is subject to the cold nights and hot days above ground that the wild ones are not. Your tortoise is experiencing wild temperatures swings in its body while the wild ones have created a much more stable environment for themselves. Its great that you have made a nice shelter, but that above ground shelter with the wide open mouth is not protecting your tortoise from temperature extremes. You need to go deeper underground and have a much narrower opening so that the temperatures he experiences will be more like what the wild ones experience.

Here is how I solved the problem for my sulcatas. My outdoor temps are pretty similar to yours year round.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/daisys-new-enclosure.28662/

 

[JohnnyB65]

I’m not so sure about “wild temperature swings” because I have minimum of 12” of dirt on top at the high point of round ceiling due to the pipe. I also have vegetation growing on top with drip irrigation to keep the sun from heating it up during the day. At the moment I have the plants pulled out because I going to dig it all up next week end to bury a 55 gal barrel for a new burrow.

I’m not fond of wood underground because we have a real problem with termites here so that’s why I’m using the barrow. Before I used the concrete blocks I had pressure treated lumber for by planter boxes and within a few years they were falling apart from termites.

During the winter months I cover the entrance with dirt to keep the cold from blowing in and also the critters. The Tortoise simply digs his way out when he’s ready.

I do like the idea of having access threw the top but I read some place to not put vents through the top because of drafts. I can’t remember if it was in the Nevada guidelines or CA but my Tortoise has been doing quite well over the last 8 years.

 

[JohnnyB65]

This is an old photo showing the vegetation within a week after I built it. We had flowers in it the first year and then we went to zucchini and peppers the next couple of years all of which provided a lot of shade during the summer months and the evaporating moisture kept it quite cool inside.

 

[Lemonade]

One thing I see might be going on here is the placement of the burrow: As I have let my DTs choose their own sleeping area, they seem to prefer east to south/east facing burrows where the morning sun hits. Then when they first come out, they spend some time just warming up before they go to graze.

Also, I just added two new tortoises to the one I had already. The new two are on a different time clock from my first. This morning, for example, after a cool night, my original one got up around 9. The other two, not til 11. My first likes to move around the yard grazing, then usually it goes right back to hang out at the burrow. The other two come out, do some grazing, then just stay above ground for a few hours.

The two new ones a darker color--more brown than gray--than my first one. I have been told that it is regional differences. The lighter color tortoise is from the lower desert where the sun is more intense. The darker ones from the higher desert where it's cooler and the darker color soaks up more heat.

I'm also wondering about the expensive "bird food" lol What food are you putting out? I rarely put food out for mine because I have quite a bit for them to graze on: grape leaves, dandelions, grasses, petunias, etc. I see that you have some natural grazing for your tort. The more you can do that the better because you won't have to worry about all that's involved with putting food out.

I do feed my box turtles and have found that birds were absconding with the food--that is til a feral cat came to live in the yard--yay! I made covers for the food and I'm attaching pictures. When the birds were more of a problem, I hung shade cloth over the covers, which really helped. You will notice that the dishes are in motes, too, to manage ants taking over.




Hope this helps.

 

[JohnnyB65]

One thing I see might be going on here is the placement of the burrow: As I have let my DTs choose their own sleeping area, they seem to prefer east to south/east facing burrows where the morning sun hits. Then when they first come out, they spend some time just warming up before they go to graze.......

He does like the south side of the property for some reason, but that just isn't possible.

OK I'm having some sort of computer problems right now, but this is what 'm feeding him I hope it posts this time

I feed him Zoo Med Natural Tortoise Food topped with Rep-Cal Maintenance Formula Tortoise Food

 

[JohnnyB65]

When I went on my last trip out of town, I covered it with and old gate, but my daughter said that it was full when she got home and empty when she left in the morning. She’s pretty sure the tortoise did not eat it and something else was eating it during the night. He doesn’t like eating his food outside his home for some reason except on occasion.

 

[Lemonade]

For the diet, I would try to move toward more natural foods. I'm adding a link to CTTC caresheet. For one thing, the birds won't like it. http://tortoise.org/general/descare.html#adult
The gate you covered with is way too high and open to keep the birds out.

For the burrow placement, I think it does answer your question about why it sleeps so late. It may be a late sleeper naturally, but I'm with you that 12 is pretty late. Can you pull the tort out of the burrow? If so, you could get it up in the morning and put it in a sunny spot to get it started.

It's cool that it wants to play with the kids. Mine are not around anyone else but me, so I haven't been able to observe that.

 

[JohnnyB65]

Thanks for the link Lemonade,
Well I guess since I’m going to be replacing its burrow anyway, I may look for alternatives on the other side of the yard. I have a little more options now because I use to have fruit trees on the opposite side of the yard, but had to get rid of them because they were attracting rats. I have a very small yard and don’t have a lot of options. The current area was ideal because it was easy to fence off and I originally had the burrow under the above ground fish pond until he got too big.

Well I’m going to try to find a better place although it will only be for a couple of years until I move to another location after I retire.

I don’t know about pulling it out because I cannot see inside its burrow and I’d be afraid of hurting it.

 

[Lemonade]

Seems like I have done a lot of tweaking to my turt/tort yards, as they keep teaching me about their preferences. Hang in there. Our torts are very forgiving. They have their preferences but will make do with what we give them. They are awesome.