Controversial Posts and replies

Alaskamike

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CONTROVERSIAL POSTS AND REPLIES

First let me preface what I want to say with a bit of declaimer; I am a very blunt person, who actually is very comfortable with opposing viewpoints, controversy and heated debate. Political “correctness” leaves me a bit befuddled, as language and meaning is so often obfuscated by what sounds to me like political babble. With that considerable grain of salt….

I really like this forum and have learned a great bit here, although , like many of you, sometimes tire of the same redundant questions and same old answers that are repeated without end. I know….I know… it needs to be done, and I do it too, but I do understand why some of the more advanced keepers get bored with it. No objection to all that, it saves the torts from pain and death.

What is starting to get to me, since I read many of the more advanced posts here, especially the more educational and controversial ones, is the sensitivity and censorship that sometimes occurs.

Again, I like plain language so comments like:

“Well that’s just stupid….” (or…as we used to say as children ‘You’re just a poopy-head’)

“If you won’t do what’s right for your tort why have him?”

“You have no idea what you’re talking about…”

“When you’ve raised several hundred babies get back to me…”

“You need to stop presenting your opinion as fact – it is not”

“You’re wrong”

These are no more than plain language. It’s no different than me saying my Sulcata is showing his ****, as opposed to ‘his maleness is making an appearance’. Do we not have the maturity to accept either terms?

If a discussion starts going off the rails, it matters not to me. In the process often valid points are made and it helps me think through my own position. Far from offense, I see strong opinion (and often humor). Now if the person can back it up with real experience and facts I take notice. Might learn something.

Locking out replies, closing threads and deleting posts seems counter-productive to discussion.
 

Yvonne G

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I understand what you're saying. However, when you allow people to be rude to each other it escalates. We didn't used to be so strict with enforcing rule #1, but it really got us into a lot of trouble. "Well that's just stupid." isn't against any rule, but "You're stupid for thinking that." is. And once you call someone stupid, whether you're just being frank or being mean, the other guy will fire back and pretty soon you have a full scale war. It's a fine line.

Please know, whatever we delete isn't gone forever. We move it to the 'to be deleted' file where it stays indefinitely. If it were challenged, then all the moderators plus Josh can have another look at it and we all decide if it would be ok to put back. There isn't only one person who makes these decisions.
 

Grandpa Turtle 144

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CONTROVERSIAL POSTS AND REPLIES

First let me preface what I want to say with a bit of declaimer; I am a very blunt person, who actually is very comfortable with opposing viewpoints, controversy and heated debate. Political “correctness” leaves me a bit befuddled, as language and meaning is so often obfuscated by what sounds to me like political babble. With that considerable grain of salt….

I really like this forum and have learned a great bit here, although , like many of you, sometimes tire of the same redundant questions and same old answers that are repeated without end. I know….I know… it needs to be done, and I do it too, but I do understand why some of the more advanced keepers get bored with it. No objection to all that, it saves the torts from pain and death.

What is starting to get to me, since I read many of the more advanced posts here, especially the more educational and controversial ones, is the sensitivity and censorship that sometimes occurs.

Again, I like plain language so comments like:

“Well that’s just stupid….” (or…as we used to say as children ‘You’re just a poopy-head’)

“If you won’t do what’s right for your tort why have him?”

“You have no idea what you’re talking about…”

“When you’ve raised several hundred babies get back to me…”

“You need to stop presenting your opinion as fact – it is not”

“You’re wrong”

These are no more than plain language. It’s no different than me saying my Sulcata is showing his ****, as opposed to ‘his maleness is making an appearance’. Do we not have the maturity to accept either terms?

If a discussion starts going off the rails, it matters not to me. In the process often valid points are made and it helps me think through my own position. Far from offense, I see strong opinion (and often humor). Now if the person can back it up with real experience and facts I take notice. Might learn something.

Locking out replies, closing threads and deleting posts seems counter-productive to discussion.
I'm not saying I agree with you or disagree . But please understand two things , I feel we have great ( not good but great ) moditors . And they too get tired of saying the same things over and over but what makes them great is their open minded ways .
And we members are not all adults so we have to remain tactful because the kids or young adults are the tort keepers of tommarrow ! So I hope you know where I'm coming from . It takes all of us to make this a great forum that it is . Torts rule !
 

Alaskamike

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I understand what you're saying. However, when you allow people to be rude to each other it escalates. We didn't used to be so strict with enforcing rule #1, but it really got us into a lot of trouble. "Well that's just stupid." isn't against any rule, but "You're stupid for thinking that." is. And once you call someone stupid, whether you're just being frank or being mean, the other guy will fire back and pretty soon you have a full scale war. It's a fine line.

Please know, whatever we delete isn't gone forever. We move it to the 'to be deleted' file where it stays indefinitely. If it were challenged, then all the moderators plus Josh can have another look at it and we all decide if it would be ok to put back. There isn't only one person who makes these decisions.
I understand Yvonne. Its easy for me since I'm not a MOD to accept whatever is said and take it with a grain of salt. The difference between saying "That's a stupid idea", and "You are stupid" is... the first is a comment on an idea, The second an indictment of the entire person. Most people mean the former when using the latter. Ad Hominim attacks are in themselves usually an indication of lack of intelligent thought - a poverty of ideas.

We have folks on the forum from 12 year olds to PhD's. I know that. And as MODS you have a responsibility to see that discussions are kept civil.

Maybe I am the odd man out, but I like when a person is forced into a corner to defend their ideas and position. Bring out the best (as well as the worst) in people. But I take your explanation and get it.
 

dmmj

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People start taking sides then the insults start flying. Only the stupid statement violates forum rules IMHO. You can think and say someone is wrong all day long as long as it is not insulting.
 

mike taylor

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Here's the way to fix it Respect each other . If you don't agree then make your point . Do it respectful . Don't just bash them . If you do we are just back to the starting line . Just because there's care sheets for tortoises doesn't mean you have to follow them to a tee. People have to realize if you live in a different part of the world you may have to tweak some stuff . A lot of keeping animals is to have some common sense. If you find something that works let people know how you have been doing it and provide pictures so others can see it did work for you .
 

dmmj

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Mike that opinion is stupid. ;)
Mike said the best way to "argue"
 

mike taylor

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Mike that opinion is stupid. ;)
Mike said the best way to "argue"
Stupid is as Stupid does. Hahaha That was really respectful . I appreciate your opinion .But........


See how I didn't come back with calling him stupid ?????
 

Tidgy's Dad

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I have no problems with the rules per se, it's the application of them that is confusing to some.
I have had posts on here deleted that have caused offence and received slaps on the wrists as well as thinly veiled insults when I've stepped out of line, by misjudging a situation, or not thinking sensibly. Also fair enough,if it was consistent with all members for the same offences. It is the hypocrisy that annoys me.
For now, enough, I will be citing the actual examples and asking for clarification when I leave the forum next Thursday.
I'm still a newbie, so i guess it doesn't matter.
 

ZEROPILOT

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People hear the same thing and take it different ways. Even experience the same things and to some it feels personal and others don't.( just ask my x-wife)
It's hard in this format to word everything the way that you mean it to sound to everyone. A lot of people find criticism hard to deal with. I, myself upset at least one new member by a response that I made that I worded rudely. I didn't mean to. It doesn't matter now. I haven't seen a rule that I didn't agree with yet and I've had whole threads deleted. (With a different set of eyes I can understand why it was done.)
There has been some light bullying. At least it is perceived bullying. Hard to tell.
Face to face would be easier, but then most members wouldn't be as brave. And their intent would be clear.
 

Alaskamike

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I have no problems with the rules per se, it's the application of them that is confusing to some.
I have had posts on here deleted that have caused offence and received slaps on the wrists as well as thinly veiled insults when I've stepped out of line, by misjudging a situation, or not thinking sensibly. Also fair enough,if it was consistent with all members for the same offences. It is the hypocrisy that annoys me.
For now, enough, I will be citing the actual examples and asking for clarification when I leave the forum next Thursday.
I'm still a newbie, so i guess it doesn't matter.
I sincerly hope you reconcider leaving the forum, and here is why-
All forums that allow for exchages of information, opiions and experience have these exact same conflicts. Debate is an important part of, and tool for, learning and allowing one to clairify what we believe, and why we believe it. Without diverget opinions, articulate expounders of ideas, we all become complacent in our kowledge and understadning and quit seeking new and better information. You have been a very acive member in the time your'e been here. I obviously do not know what conflicts you've encountered in the forum, but.....

I always miss a sharp mind and challenges to my understanding. This you do provide, and it has value.
 

Alaskamike

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Let me say one other thing in open response - not to anyone in particular. This sensitivity to words, and interpretation of them, extends in my mind to a bit of overreaction to rebuke. If one of my posts gets challenged by a moderator as inappropriate, it should not automatically anger me and in itself cause offense. I hope I can be mature enough and secure enough to either defend my wording, or modify it to follow the rules. It is way too easy to overreact with offense whenever we are challenged in any way, this includes an overreaction to a 'hand slap' when a thread seems to be going off the rails.

Being direct IS NOT the same as a personal attack. Unfortunatly they are often taken as the same thing.
 

wellington

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What everyone has to understand also, we are all not alike. Heck, our courts judges see crimes/criminals differently and they are taking someone's life into their hands. This is just a forum. You can't expect all us mods to be robots and take everyone's post or offense the same. Same as all you members don't see everything the same. Some of us would let more things pass, while others won't. We have our own debates over a lot of these questionable threads. Also, no offense to the newer members, but most of you complaining have only been here for a year. Those of us longer, some much longer, have been through the really ruff times of all the bashing. It's not fun. Makes us mods, have to play mommy or daddy to a bunch of adults that should know better. Then because we do what Josh asked of us, we get bashed. Can I tell you, most of the kid members act a whole lot better then some adults. The rules are pretty simple I think. Most members don't even read them until they are called out for breaking one of them. Read the rules, don't break them and realize everyone will read into it differently. Also remember, it's really hard to read someone's tone of voice in a typed post.
 

Yvonne G

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I have no problems with the rules per se, it's the application of them that is confusing to some.
I have had posts on here deleted that have caused offence and received slaps on the wrists as well as thinly veiled insults when I've stepped out of line, by misjudging a situation, or not thinking sensibly. Also fair enough,if it was consistent with all members for the same offences. It is the hypocrisy that annoys me.
For now, enough, I will be citing the actual examples and asking for clarification when I leave the forum next Thursday.
I'm still a newbie, so i guess it doesn't matter.

Yes, but don't you see? People are reprimanded in private. No one knows if someone is being 'talked to' by a moderator. You know when you've been given the word, but you don't know when the other guy got in trouble. There's no hypocrisy. We are equal opportunity reprimanders.
 

Tidgy's Dad

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I sincerly hope you reconcider leaving the forum, and here is why-
All forums that allow for exchages of information, opiions and experience have these exact same conflicts. Debate is an important part of, and tool for, learning and allowing one to clairify what we believe, and why we believe it. Without diverget opinions, articulate expounders of ideas, we all become complacent in our kowledge and understadning and quit seeking new and better information. You have been a very acive member in the time your'e been here. I obviously do not know what conflicts you've encountered in the forum, but.....

I always miss a sharp mind and challenges to my understanding. This you do provide, and it has value.
Thank you very much for your eloquent reply, but I am not talking about debate or opinion, but hypocrisy and direct and veiled insults.
 

Tidgy's Dad

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What everyone has to understand also, we are all not alike. Heck, our courts judges see crimes/criminals differently and they are taking someone's life into their hands. This is just a forum. You can't expect all us mods to be robots and take everyone's post or offense the same. Same as all you members don't see everything the same. Some of us would let more things pass, while others won't. We have our own debates over a lot of these questionable threads. Also, no offense to the newer members, but most of you complaining have only been here for a year. Those of us longer, some much longer, have been through the really ruff times of all the bashing. It's not fun. Makes us mods, have to play mommy or daddy to a bunch of adults that should know better. Then because we do what Josh asked of us, we get bashed. Can I tell you, most of the kid members act a whole lot better then some adults. The rules are pretty simple I think. Most members don't even read them until they are called out for breaking one of them. Read the rules, don't break them and realize everyone will read into it differently. Also remember, it's really hard to read someone's tone of voice in a typed post.
You're right, I've only been here three months and shouldn't be complaining.
As you say, i should stay here longer and go through the really ruff times of all the bashing?
No thank you very much.
I've read the rules, which is why I'm confused.
 
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Tidgy's Dad

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Yes, but don't you see? People are reprimanded in private. No one knows if someone is being 'talked to' by a moderator. You know when you've been given the word, but you don't know when the other guy got in trouble. There's no hypocrisy. We are equal opportunity reprimanders.
Simply not true.
I have never been reprimanded in private, but on an open forum, yes.
 

Gillian M

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I have no problems with the rules per se, it's the application of them that is confusing to some.
I have had posts on here deleted that have caused offence and received slaps on the wrists as well as thinly veiled insults when I've stepped out of line, by misjudging a situation, or not thinking sensibly. Also fair enough,if it was consistent with all members for the same offences. It is the hypocrisy that annoys me.
For now, enough, I will be citing the actual examples and asking for clarification when I leave the forum next Thursday.
I'm still a newbie, so i guess it doesn't matter.
Helo Adam. Leaving the forum? Are you serious? WHY? if I may ask. Please do not leave! Appreciate an answer asap, thank you.
 

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