Closed "Chambers"

SuperSue

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Remember we are talking about housing babies. Not adults or even juveniles. Discussion is welcome here. I'm always wanting to learn more.

What age do you class as babies, i have a 4-5 year old and since taken out of humid housing has started pyramiding this last 6 months but has had rapid growth, i am attempting to get her to sleep in a moss hide but she won't. Tom says it could be how she was kept before i had her, i want to help her as much as able.
Love you enclosed chamber.
 

Tom

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I consider them "babies" from the time they lose the egg tooth up to one year. This is not about age though, this is about size. No one knows at what size they are "out of the woods" so to speak. Several of us in dry climates are having trouble with bigger older ones when trying to make the transition to the great outdoors full time.

Show us a profile pic of yours?
 

dakotawiseman15

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Tom said:
Been meaning to do this one for a while now...

Over the years I have kept a lot of reptiles in a lot of different ways. I've learned a lot of stuff about a lot of species. Since finding and joining this forum almost two years ago, I've learned a TON more. Now I'm not just stumbling around alone in the dark. Now, with the help of all the fantastic TFO members, I can see and experience everyone else's enclosures and styles too.

There are a lot of good ways to house a tortoise indoors. Tank, tub, trough, table, and... closed chamber. Different methods work best for the various species and ages. Through all of my "experiments" and sharing the vast experience of others here on the forum, I have reached my current conclusion that "closed chambers", with a basking lamp inside, are the best means of housing the babies of most species. Everyone's situation is different, and we all live in different climates... heck our torts are all from different climates too. Still, overall, I have personally experienced the best results and seen the best results from others, in this style of enclosure. Several people come to mind, but Tyler, Neal, Kristina and KBaker, have especially shown their enclosures and the results. There are lots of others too, but these members have had the biggest influence on me recently.

Only in a closed chamber can I control the humidity properly. Its very dry where I live, and its a constant battle to maintain any humidity at all in most enclosures. In a closed chamber, its a piece of cake. I've used glass tanks and various styles of tortoise tables for years to house my chelonians, but the open tops let out all that beneficial humidity and heat. By putting my heat lamps and CHEs INSIDE the closed enclosure, they do NOT dry things out AND they use a lot less power to give me the same amount of heat. Plus, once they heat everything up and the thermostat kicks them off, the heat just stays in there. I'm using less electricity on my 4x8' closed chamber than I am on my 40 gallon open topped glass tank! (I have little electric meters called "Kill-A-Watt EZ"). The humidity is lower directly under the heat lamp, but its as high as I want to keep it all around that area and the rest of the enclosure.
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In theory this all sounds reasonable, but what happens in the real world? I've gotten the best results I've ever gotten in this type of enclosure. On a lot of my glass tanks I end up covering as much of the top as I can. It seems like the more and better I cover them, the better the results I get. But I still lose all my heat and humidity out of the hole that has to be there for my light fixtures. Like this one:
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This leads me to a big problem that has come up recently with several potential new tortoise keepers. Where does one go buy a "closed tortoise chamber" for their new pet? Most conventional enclosures are too shallow to have a closed top and still allow enough room for a hanging fixture with a hot bulb in it. I like the Vision tubs, but they are too short for this purpose. My leopard enclosure is 24" tall and that just barely accommodates things safely. When I build the next one it will be around 30" tall. I have not seen a pre-made enclosure with the right dimensions. Tyler showed me this one that he is using. I can't remember which species he is housing in this.
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Remember we are talking about housing babies. Not adults or even juveniles. Discussion is welcome here. I'm always wanting to learn more.

Just curious, how much did it cost to make this?
 

Tom

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I built these chambers many years ago. Back in the 90's. I don't know what they would cost as there are many variables. 3 sheets of ply wood, 7 or 8 2x4s, a bunch of screws, some 4x4s and more 2x4s for legs if needed... I'm at around $100 right there. Add paint and trim if you want it. The front glass can be custom made at Home Depot to your specs for about $150.

I recently saw 2x4x2' closed chambers for sale ready to go with flourescent and incandescent light fixtures already mounted for $199.
 

Masqurade

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I changed over from an open top to two large plastic storage drawers (15$ each). Cut out one of the sides on each and used polyken tape to connect them. I then cut out holes in the top for the bulbs, lined with tin foil. Only issue I have come across is keeping the humidity up. But there is a little gap along the top of the drawers between them and the lid so I have a fogger on the way and then along the outside I am looking to put up "walls" to stop the air flow.
 

Livingstone

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I consider them "babies" from the time they lose the egg tooth up to one year. This is not about age though, this is about size. No one knows at what size they are "out of the woods" so to speak. Several of us in dry climates are having trouble with bigger older ones when trying to make the transition to the great outdoors full time.

What trouble are you referring to with the bigger older ones?
 

Tom

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They start pyramiding and having rough growth lines when they live outside full time in a dry climate. I, and several others, have begun attempting to humidify their heated night boxes and this appears to be solving the problem, but "all dry all the time" doesn't seem to suit any species of any age very well.
 

Dianne K Wiley

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Howdy, I am very new to all this. Planning on getting 2 hatchling sulcata but all I read about is how to keep humidity in. I live in SE,Louisiana most of the time we have humidity of 80% w outside summer day time temps that can get to the mid 90's.. Roght now we are in the mid 80's and very moist. Yes, my house is air conditioned to keep the temps down and to dry up some of the moisture.. I am still deciding on an enclosure for my babies. I am leaning towards those big rubber maids.. Just would like to hear some opinions from people who have an abundance of heat and humidity. Maybe I can be referred to another area of this forum.... .
 

Dizisdalife

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Howdy, I am very new to all this. Planning on getting 2 hatchling sulcata but all I read about is how to keep humidity in. I live in SE,Louisiana most of the time we have humidity of 80% w outside summer day time temps that can get to the mid 90's.. Roght now we are in the mid 80's and very moist. Yes, my house is air conditioned to keep the temps down and to dry up some of the moisture.. I am still deciding on an enclosure for my babies. I am leaning towards those big rubber maids.. Just would like to hear some opinions from people who have an abundance of heat and humidity. Maybe I can be referred to another area of this forum.... .
Hi Dianne, welcome to the forum. In recent years it has become apparent that proper humidity level as well as hydration, diet and exercise are critical to raising a smooth shelled healthy sulcata. I assume that you will be keeping yours inside most of the first year. I suggest that you don't rely on the ambient temperature and humidity of your house to provide such an important part of their care. You may not need to work as hard to keep the humidity and heat levels where they should be as I do, but with a closed chamber you are assured that they will be spot on.
 

Dianne K Wiley

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Oh yes, they will be inside but they will have supervised porch time to get real sunshine. Maybe a big tank with a glass cover and the rubber maid(light weight play pen to carry outside).. to get their real sunshine.. I am still planning/researching. I do need lots of help..
 

Star-of-India

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So I've drunk the Kool-Aid! I started, or restarted, keeping tortoises at the end of December in closed vivaria after about a 15 year hiatus. I obtained 5 Indian Stars all with pyramiding to some degree or another -generally age dependent. Fairly significant in some of them. Yearlings to "juveniles" and after joining the forum I switched to pretty moist /humid conditions.

I am so amazed by the new growth! I am feeding for growth as the too much protein/food argument doesn't make too much sense to me. I know that the existing pyramids won't flatten, but the new growth sure comes in much more flattened! It is truly incredible how flat the new growth appears.

In any case, I'm sold! I only wish that the breeders of my torts had appreciated this!

Doug
 

rocillo.a

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I use lower wattage heat lamps, place them right in the glass aquarium, and use a plexiglass cover to seal in the humidity. I have not had any issues with mold, shell rot, or "lack of air-flow."

My Sulcatas, Redfoot (now yearling,) and Star hatchlings have been kept this way from day one and have grown smooth. I started my Greek (yearling now also) in a a sweater box with a humid hide, and she started to pyramid. It isn't bad, but it makes me feel like a failure.

Here are some pics of my aquariums.

As you can see in this one, the heat lamps are right down in the enclosure. The one over the water dish turns it into a little "sauna" and the smaller, darker of the two babies loves to lay in it. She will put her little head on the rim and go to sleep there.

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Here are the babies. They are bigger now (WAAAAAAYYYY past time to update pictures!)

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Here is where I kept my first Star before summer hit. You can see again the heat source is right down in there. In this case it is a 60 watt black light bulb (both this enclosure and the one above have these as a heat source with an additional florescent for light.)

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Here is the result...

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Next is my little Redfoot. This one started out in an old Metaframe slate bottom aquarium. The hood for the tank has two incandescent sockets, which hold compact florescents, and the other hanging down is a 60 watt black light bulb.

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Having that set up made this...

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Hi there Maam Kristina... just have few questions.

i just want to know what is the range of your sulcata enclosure.. the minimum and the maximum humidity you give.
i have sulcata and my enclosure always moist and therefor, it always give 100% humidity.

i am just scared that it will cause a problem.
 

dannel

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wish i'd have seen this or thought about it before we built our newest enclosure. but, plexiglass will have to do for this one. i have a yearling sulcata in here, but this coming summer we'll move him outdoors and my baby leopard will inherit this enclosure.

my ideas definitely came from your closed chambers, tom. and there was a kid on the forum that had the idea of the sloped lid that i used. i have a 100 watt che on a thermostat and a 100 watt mvb in here. although i'm getting ready to try a 150 watt che on the thermostat because right now the 100 watt has to stay on 24/7 and never goes off. i also have a humidifier pumped into the enclosure that goes on and off throughout the day.

before this enclosure i used a 50 gallon glass aquarium. it wasn't technically completely enclosed because my lights are on the outside with holes cut out. but it worked pretty well cause my sulcata isn't perfect, but he's pretty darn smooth.

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Was I, by any chance, the kid whos idea this was? If so, I'm glad to see that people like my design!
 

marcy4hope

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Was I, by any chance, the kid whos idea this was? If so, I'm glad to see that people like my design!
i'm not sure daniel, but probably. it's been a great enclosure idea. it's worked fine. between the original aquarium and this enclosure based off your ideas and toms, i've got one very smooth sulcata. only thing i would do different is to make it at least twice as big, or more.
 

Amanda81

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I am crushed that you would leave me out when you are naming names. I guess it's my lack of experience...

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Or maybe it's my lack of enclosures...

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this one has 2 lids on top

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you can have one lid open, or 2

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I guess it means nothing that hatchlings are my specialty or that I raise them in many different types of enclosures.
Hi maggie3! I am getting ready to adventure into the world of hatchling raising. I see that this is your specialty. I seen your enclosures and I believe I will go with something along those lines as well. I was wondering if u could give me so advise on raising one. I want to provide the very best care and environment I can from the start. I have some ideal on what I need to do, largest enclosure possible, UVB light, basking spot, and heat source, which I want to set everything up on a thermostat so I have a soft cycle and it's not just a on/off situation. Plus it will help regulate temps. In your opinion what would b the best material to put in the enclosure? Everything I have read seems to point to the Eco earth that comes in bricks and u wet. I'm a little confused as to weather I leave all that damp or just certain spots to create the right amount of humidity. Please give me some insight on this.
 

dannel

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i'm not sure daniel, but probably. it's been a great enclosure idea. it's worked fine. between the original aquarium and this enclosure based off your ideas and toms, i've got one very smooth sulcata. only thing i would do different is to make it at least twice as big, or more.

Have you found that it's a little irritating having to place all lights on the back wall though, because of the closed lid?
 

marcy4hope

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Have you found that it's a little irritating having to place all lights on the back wall though, because of the closed lid?
no, i've had no problem with that.

i've only had 3 issues with this enclosure - #1 - WAY too small. #2 - the lid doesn't completely come down and so, the humidity doesn't stay in as well as it should. there is a slight opening all around the edge of the lid which causes too much humidity to escape. and #3 - the plexiglass, which i mentioned before, allows my tort to see out and so she is constantly digging at the corner and sides where she can see. that drives me nuts, because if she can see me she's constantly digging and scratching at the sides. they should have been made all of solid wood.

what has worked great: the sloped lid is nice. and i used kennel seal to protect all of the inside wood and that seems to have worked really well.
 
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20141111_195551.jpg 20141111_195559.jpg what is the best way to mount my Heat lamps. I noticed Tom "in the beginning photos" has some wire mesh on the top. should i do something like this to create some air flow. This is the last step before I can start putting my substrate in and get my baby leopards in their new indoor enclosure.
 
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