Cherry head hatchling: start of shell rot or just new growth?

xirxes

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This just showed up last few days on most of the hatchlings, to varying degree.

Substrate in housing is DRY to touch, kept at 80-88F depending on part of day, 90-95% humidity.

They have humid hides/areas of damp sphagnum that they always head towards, and they get daily baths.

Any advice appreciated thanks.
4649f1167fc3c960e78f126e368573cf.jpg
0c3f235d0f4900e6de60af9e638ca2db.jpg
 

wellington

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The top shell is fine, they don't get shell rot there. The bottom does at the least have a fungus. Drop the humidity to 80% and remove the moss in the hide or put a dry layer over it. RF and Cherries are prone to shell rot. They need to be on dry substrate but keeping a higher humidity. Normally wetting the bottom layer with pouring warm water into the corners will do this.
In the mean time, get some antifungal cream to treat the bottom shell spots
 

xirxes

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I unfortunately get all or nothing with humidity, as I need to close it off completely to heat overnight. I can treat with athletes foot daily for 10 days sound right?
 

xirxes

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Another shot of a different baby for reference, just would like to know if marbling or fungus.
88d4e978893964a2c78e3e543c726df0.jpg
 

Anyfoot

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This just showed up last few days on most of the hatchlings, to varying degree.

Substrate in housing is DRY to touch, kept at 80-88F depending on part of day, 90-95% humidity.

They have humid hides/areas of damp sphagnum that they always head towards, and they get daily baths.

Any advice appreciated thanks.
4649f1167fc3c960e78f126e368573cf.jpg
0c3f235d0f4900e6de60af9e638ca2db.jpg
Can you show me your enclosure please?
I keep my redfoots at 84f ish with humidity at 90%+, (basically very wet and humid) and never experienced shell rot.
I'm intrigued to why some are having the shell rot problem. There has to be a reason, we just need to find out what it is.
 

xirxes

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I built it step by step in the enclosure subforum post, but here it is:

00eb8c37f84f67e1fad735c807d17cd3.jpg


Basically coconut husk over coconut coir. I never wet the substrate it is 100% dry to touch.

I had two water reserviors to maintain humidity. There are 4 areas 8"x8" with damp spaghnum, where they seem to migrate to to sleep either side of rear bowl, under side bowl platform and in cool hide. Also a small pool, but I never see them soak.

Heat lamp is at more moist end. The open area here is covered in plexi all night.

Changes I just made based on potential fungus: removed water below heater, replaced with the most damp spaghnum to dry out. I will let all of the soaghnum in whole enclosure dry out over next 3-4 days.
 

Anyfoot

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I built it step by step in the enclosure subforum post, but here it is:

00eb8c37f84f67e1fad735c807d17cd3.jpg


Basically coconut husk over coconut coir. I never wet the substrate it is 100% dry to touch.

I had two water reserviors to maintain humidity. There are 4 areas 8"x8" with damp spaghnum, where they seem to migrate to to sleep either side of rear bowl, under side bowl platform and in cool hide. Also a small pool, but I never see them soak.

Heat lamp is at more moist end. The open area here is covered in plexi all night.

Changes I just made based on potential fungus: removed water below heater, replaced with the most damp spaghnum to dry out. I will let all of the soaghnum in whole enclosure dry out over next 3-4 days.
Treat your fungus with athletes foot cream to stop the fungus problem. Until you stop fungus growth everything else is a waste of time.
I'm assuming the top layer of large bits I'm seeing is Coco husk, Change this for orchid bark, the coir husk holds moisture that good it starts to Fester with mould grows. Your tort is then sitting on the festering husk and bacteria is transferring to your tortoises. Orchid bark doesn't absorb moisture like Coco husk does. It can not Fester.
 

xirxes

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I looked everywhere for orchid bark, but it does not seem to be available in Socal. I need quite a bit of it, and I'm not willing to pay zoo med prices. The coconut husk I assure you is bone dry, and does not get misted.
 

Anyfoot

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I looked everywhere for orchid bark, but it does not seem to be available in Socal. I need quite a bit of it, and I'm not willing to pay zoo med prices. The coconut husk I assure you is bone dry, and does not get misted.
I started with Coco husk them went to Cyprus mulch then orchid bark. Husk absorbs and hold water, orchid bark is very dense and does not hold water, Cyprus mulch is somewhere inbetween. Dont assume Coco husk to be the same as Coco coir because it acts differently. All this doesn't help your situation just info for you to absorb.
Give me a minute to look at your photo again.
 

xirxes

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I started with Coco husk them went to Cyprus mulch then orchid bark. Husk absorbs and hold water, orchid bark is very dense and does not hold water, Cyprus mulch is somewhere inbetween. Dont assume Coco husk to be the same as Coco coir because it acts differently. All this doesn't help your situation just info for you to absorb.
Give me a minute to look at your photo again.
Oh yeah! Cypress mulch was the one I couldn't find! I will add a layer of orchid bark on top of everything. Thanks for advice.
 

Anyfoot

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Somethings not right, my torts have mounds, I mean huge mounds of moist spaghnum moss that they sit in 20hrs a day with no mould problems.
Can you get any Cyprus mulch. You won't need to take out the coir husk but just lay Cyprus mulch or orchid bark on top of that. Put the moss back in, but where ever you have moss make sure there is only coir under the moss so they can dig in instead of sitting on the Coco husk.
What's your Coco coir like, too many people spray the entire enclosure every day and end up with sodden substrate, I've done it and got stagnant substrate, only spray your tortoises Carapace not the enclosure, if you need to spray the enclosure daily to maintain humidity something is wrong, I'm starting to think this may be your problem.
Are you adding water to your enclosure daily?
 

xirxes

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I add only a very light spritz to the 4 piles of spaghnum that dried out. I add no water to supstrate , but when I take the top off it "rains" down but not a ton. I add no additional water.

The coco coir is all quite damp underneath, but it's 3" down and they don't get to it, and I am not adding any water to this layer actively.
 

Anyfoot

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Another thing you need to think about is, if your top layer is dry and your bottom layer is sodden with festering mould your torts maybe digging in to to the sodden underlayer. If you are constantly adding water to a closed chamber I'll garantee you the bottom layer is biggy and perfect environment for mould growth. Your tort then sits in this and mould is transferred.
Just things for you to look at.
 

Anyfoot

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I add only a very light spritz to the 4 piles of spaghnum that dried out. I add no water to supstrate , but when I take the top off it "rains" down but not a ton. I add no additional water.

The coco coir is all quite damp underneath, but it's 3" down and they don't get to it, and I am not adding any water to this layer actively.
Push your hand to the bottom of your enclosure to see how wet it is. I had this problem with my hingebacks(a full blooded wet species) and experienced shell rot.
 

xirxes

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If it's wet wet I'll remove my water reservoir and dry it out during the day.

Should I just remove some of the 4" of coco coir that's offending?
 

Anyfoot

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If it's wet wet I'll remove my water reservoir and dry it out during the day.

Should I just remove some of the 4" of coco coir that's offending?
If you've got to the stage where all your underlayer of coir is sodden you need to take it all out, squeeze the water out, soak it in boiling water then squeeze it all out again then put it back in. The boiling water will kill any bacteria. It's a pain but part of the learning curve. I've had to do it with my hingebacks before.
The trouble we have is this, in an enclosure chamber the water can't drain away and it can't evaporate. In an open enclosure you can't maintain humidity and temperatures. So the compromise is a closed chamber with you dictating humidity levels. I've found that if you moisten everything from the start of setting up your enclosure, you don't need to do anything other than spray your torts Carapace twice a day(I mean literally 1 or 2 squirts on each tort) and offer 1 or 2 water dishes. The evaporation from the water dishes should keep up humidity levels, you just need to work out what water mass area to suit your size enclosure.
Honestly I wouldn't take moss out, if your tort can't keep humid at night under moss it will pyramid.
 

xirxes

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Your hatchlings are sopping! My enclosure is nowhere near that wet at surface!

I will definitely take out all coir and dry it out. Boiling 4 cubic feet may be problematic. I'll figure it out.
 

xirxes

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I have just finished first application of anti-fungal to all plastrons (My wife officially thinks im nuts, using my iPhone to light up the area outside so i can put athletes foot cream on tortoise hatchlings in the dark!).

I also dug down in all areas and found that although the coconut coir is slightly moist, it is NOT wet, and i couldnt wring this stuff out if i wanted to. Now where the coco husk is touching the coir layer it is much more wet, and i think i do need to swap out the husk for orchid bark. I will do this tomorrow AM.

I am also taking out the water reservior as well, as i think it is just too much water and is not letting the substrate properly cycle its water. This will allow me over time to really hone in on an 80-85% humidity and let me keep humid moss piles around again.

I will continue fungal treatment until all signs gone and update after orchid bark addition.
 

Anyfoot

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Your hatchlings are sopping! My enclosure is nowhere near that wet at surface!

I will definitely take out all coir and dry it out. Boiling 4 cubic feet may be problematic. I'll figure it out.
This enclosure is in a large hot humid room so there is also good drainage.
I didn't mean boil the coir, I meant just add boiling water too it. However it doesn't sound like that's your problem. I'd add a layer of coir.
I once got shell rot with my hinges, it was because I was putting basil leaves in the enclosure as part of the substrate, the one hingeback that didn't get shell rot was the one that used to spend 20hrs+ a day in the water bath. This proves to me that a tortoise can sit in cleanish water for long long periods without getting shell rot, but yet another tortoise that is sat on something that is rotting and getting mouldy can get shell rot relatively quick.
 

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