Can the shell get softer over a 48 hour period?

Jenni

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Hi Jenni,

Welcome. Looks like you got some good advice above. I too had similar situation as yours when I got my first Leopard.

I watched your video and it looks like the carapace is in good shape. Not sure about the plastron, but it should be on par with the carapace.

Did you mention how heavy your baby is in grams?

Even though you will need to make a few adjustments with your enclosure, I like the creativity.

One thing I wouldn't do is let the cat near the tortoise.


If it's more a worry about her (the cat) hurting him there's zero concern. She's like 14, loves everything, lets pet rodents climb and snuggle all over her, the parakeet etc. If it's for a health reason I'm curious to know, I definitely don't want him getting sick. This particular tort hasn't met the cat yet. We've only had him a few days.

I don't know how many grams he is, I suppose I'll have to get a scale. Where you able to watch the video? Does that seem really bad?
 

Jenni

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Has anyone watched the video? Is he doomed? :(
I noticed yesterday when he was outside he was repeatedly attempting to bite the surfaces he was on- the deck and the ceramic tiled table. Seemed sort of strange to me? He would walk along, stop and attempt several bites and then move along again and repeat. He ate pretty well and drank water during his soak so I don't know what that's all about.

 

Ramsey

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If it's more a worry about her (the cat) hurting him there's zero concern. She's like 14, loves everything, lets pet rodents climb and snuggle all over her, the parakeet etc. If it's for a health reason I'm curious to know, I definitely don't want him getting sick. This particular tort hasn't met the cat yet. We've only had him a few days.

I don't know how many grams he is, I suppose I'll have to get a scale. Where you able to watch the video? Does that seem really bad?

I wouldn't worry too much about soft shell right now. That's more of a symptom thing if it is in fact an issue. The main thing I would focus on if I were you is to get a routine down that works for you and your tortoise. Once you get the diet and husbandry correct, a soft shell will harden (calcium, nutrients, exercise etc).

About the cat: I don't have any personal experience there, but I wouldn't recommend it. Those creatures wouldn't willfully cross paths in the wild.
 

Jenni

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I wouldn't worry too much about soft shell right now. That's more of a symptom thing if it is in fact an issue. The main thing I would focus on if I were you is to get a routine down that works for you and your tortoise. Once you get the diet and husbandry correct, a soft shell will harden (calcium, nutrients, exercise etc).

About the cat: I don't have any personal experience there, but I wouldn't recommend it. Those creatures wouldn't willfully cross paths in the wild.


Oh okay gotcha, yeah I can see where you would be concerned, the cat is not typical. In addition I would NEVER leave my tort unattended around the house or any animal for that matter :)

I'm just nervous about the underside of his shell, I'm not exactly sure what's considered "spongy" since I have no prior experience :(
 
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Maro2Bear

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Also, one other thing to make things easier for your young tort is to make his food saucer level or lower than your substrate. You want him to easily crawl around, in, over and down into and onto his food. Your making it much harder by making him find, and then climb up to and up n over that food dish.

Re-read Toms info on starting babies. High heat, high humidity, nice moist substrate, nice dark humid hide. You are using a clear tupperware. Check out how, what Tom recommends. CHE on a thermostat, basking light, soaking daily in nice warm water, good food, a pellet or three of moistened mazuri at this size. Closed enclosure! Will help ensure heat, humidity levels are stabilized. Open top is letting all the heat, humid air escape. No straw, hay, timothy...etc inside. Sphagnum, peatmoss, orchid bark all are proven winners. Smell good, won't mildew or mold.

Jenni, Hope this helps. Good luck with your baby.
 

Jenni

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Thanks so much! Yes... I did take out the food dish on the first day and only left the one for water. I put all his food on the hay (which I didn't know I wasn't supposed to have because that's what I was told to get by the shop owner). I'm removing the hay. I have moss in his little hut... he spent the night in there last night and left the heat lamp on. Sprayed the enclosure down last night and this morning to keep it damp.

He soaked again outside for about 20 minutes today and ate his greens on the deck. It was about 87 and sunny at that point. I think we spent a total of 90 min outside?

I still have to look into how to enclose this thing like suggested... I guess I'm just paranoid about the heat lamp or fire hazard since I don't really know what I'm doing and it's a plastic container I'll look more into that post. I guess I'll need a new hide. Wondering what I can put around the Tupperware in the meantime....

ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1505600791.397623.jpg
 

Maro2Bear

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Check out Ceramic Heat Elements (CHE) along with a thermostat. A well placed CHE connected to a good thermostat will ensure 24/7 proper ambient temps. CHE , coupled with a good basking light, and your good. No " heat lamp" being used. Make a trip to Walmart or Kohls or Home Depot or Lowes....and look for a Rubbermade type storage container. Remove the lid, cut a nice U - shaped entrance , flip it over in your enclosure. You want one thats not too large. These torts like to burrow in to their hide and feel warm, dark and safe.

At night, you don't want any lights on, just warm, dark and humid.

Make sure your temps are proper day and night...etc. A fully enclosed enclosure will help you get there quickly. With no lid, you will continually struggle to get there, let alone maintain.

Good luck! :)
 

Jenni

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Check out Ceramic Heat Elements (CHE) along with a thermostat. A well placed CHE connected to a good thermostat will ensure 24/7 proper ambient temps. CHE , coupled with a good basking light, and your good. No " heat lamp" being used. Make a trip to Walmart or Kohls or Home Depot or Lowes....and look for a Rubbermade type storage container. Remove the lid, cut a nice U - shaped entrance , flip it over in your enclosure. You want one thats not too large. These torts like to burrow in to their hide and feel warm, dark and safe.

At night, you don't want any lights on, just warm, dark and humid.

Make sure your temps are proper day and night...etc. A fully enclosed enclosure will help you get there quickly. With no lid, you will continually struggle to get there, let alone maintain.

Good luck! :)

His little hideaway is exactly as you described. - "and look for a Rubbermade type storage container. Remove the lid, cut a nice U - shaped entrance , flip it over in your enclosure."- It's just that it's clear plastic, so I thought maybe I could put something around it to darken it up for him....

I'll look into CHE now... thanks!
 

Jenni

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His little hideaway is exactly as you described. - "and look for a Rubbermade type storage container. Remove the lid, cut a nice U - shaped entrance , flip it over in your enclosure."- It's just that it's clear plastic, so I thought maybe I could put something around it to darken it up for him....

I'll look into CHE now... thanks!
ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1505650733.318631.jpgImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1505650751.249201.jpg
 

Jenni

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Check out Ceramic Heat Elements (CHE) along with a thermostat. A well placed CHE connected to a good thermostat will ensure 24/7 proper ambient temps. CHE , coupled with a good basking light, and your good. No " heat lamp" being used. Make a trip to Walmart or Kohls or Home Depot or Lowes....and look for a Rubbermade type storage container. Remove the lid, cut a nice U - shaped entrance , flip it over in your enclosure. You want one thats not too large. These torts like to burrow in to their hide and feel warm, dark and safe.

At night, you don't want any lights on, just warm, dark and humid.

Make sure your temps are proper day and night...etc. A fully enclosed enclosure will help you get there quickly. With no lid, you will continually struggle to get there, let alone maintain.

Good luck! :)


Is this what I want to order?

https://www.amazon.com/Zacro-Reptil...amic+heat+element&refinements=p_85:2470955011

Also, I have a UVB lamp, basking lamp and now this will be a third lamp? Should I buy a combo lamp then? If so, which two bulbs should I put together and which should be on it's own?

GEEZ I never thought I'd have so many questions...sorry!
 

Taylor T.

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That CHE will work fine for a heater. What kind of UVB bulb are you using? Is it a coil or loop shaped bulb? For your basking lamp, if you already have a source of UVB, you do not have to buy any reptile specific bulb. A hardware store or Walmart will likely sell regular incandescent bulbs (you probably about a 60 watt one) for less than a dollar each if bought in bulk. Much cheaper than the reptile specific ones.
 

Jenni

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That CHE will work fine for a heater. What kind of UVB bulb are you using? Is it a coil or loop shaped bulb? For your basking lamp, if you already have a source of UVB, you do not have to buy any reptile specific bulb. A hardware store or Walmart will likely sell regular incandescent bulbs (you probably about a 60 watt one) for less than a dollar each if bought in bulk. Much cheaper than the reptile specific ones.

Right now he has an Exo Terra Sun-Glo Basking Spot Lamp that keeps half the enclosure at about 92-95 degrees, the other side is about 80-82ish. He also has a separate lamp which has a Zoo Med ReptiSun 5.0 UVB Mini Compact Fluorescent bulb (13W)
 

Jenni

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Right now he has an Exo Terra Sun-Glo Basking Spot Lamp that keeps half the enclosure at about 92-95 degrees, the other side is about 80-82ish. He also has a separate lamp which has a Zoo Med ReptiSun 5.0 UVB Mini Compact Fluorescent bulb (13W)

The UVB is loop shaped I suppose. It's not flat
 

Tom

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The UVB is loop shaped I suppose. It's not flat

The pet store sold you all the wrong stuff. That is what normally happens at the pet store, so not a surprise.

All this is explained in the care sheets, but here are the high points:
  1. You've got the wrong substrate. I think you already know this one. Hay is not good for them. Its too dry. Fine grade orchid bark works best. Get it in bulk for a low price at a local garden center. Hardware store like Home Depot, don't usually have it.
  2. No spot bulbs, and regular bulbs in reptile packaging are quite frankly a rip-off. Spot bulbs concentrate too much heat into too small of an area. This will greatly contribute to pyramiding. Use "flood" or even regular round bulbs in a proper hood. Buy these at a hardware store to save a bunch of money.
  3. Proper hood: http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-10-1-2-in-Brooder-Clamp-Light-HD-303PDQ/204684496 Those narrow ones, or the deep dome ones from the pet shops are over priced and not as effective.
  4. No cfl type UV bulbs. They are not an effective UV source and some of them burn reptile eyes. Also, passing this bulb through a screen is blocking a large percentage of any UV benefit that the bulb does offer. Use a long tube, or real sunshine instead.
  5. If you haven't picked up on it yet, there is an underlying theme here: Pet stores don't have what you need, charge too much, and they sell the wrong stuff for tortoises.
 

Jenni

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The pet store sold you all the wrong stuff. That is what normally happens at the pet store, so not a surprise.

All this is explained in the care sheets, but here are the high points:
  1. You've got the wrong substrate. I think you already know this one. Hay is not good for them. Its too dry. Fine grade orchid bark works best. Get it in bulk for a low price at a local garden center. Hardware store like Home Depot, don't usually have it.
  2. No spot bulbs, and regular bulbs in reptile packaging are quite frankly a rip-off. Spot bulbs concentrate too much heat into too small of an area. This will greatly contribute to pyramiding. Use "flood" or even regular round bulbs in a proper hood. Buy these at a hardware store to save a bunch of money.
  3. Proper hood: http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-10-1-2-in-Brooder-Clamp-Light-HD-303PDQ/204684496 Those narrow ones, or the deep dome ones from the pet shops are over priced and not as effective.
  4. No cfl type UV bulbs. They are not an effective UV source and some of them burn reptile eyes. Also, passing this bulb through a screen is blocking a large percentage of any UV benefit that the bulb does offer. Use a long tube, or real sunshine instead.
  5. If you haven't picked up on it yet, there is an underlying theme here: Pet stores don't have what you need, charge too much, and they sell the wrong stuff for tortoises.


No kidding... I just posted another thread this morning about having to change everything... if you have any photos you could share on there I would appreciate it so much. I'm so annoyed with this shop which is supposed to be the very best around. They even have a youtube channel and are in all the reptile shows. Seems he should stick to snakes.
 

Tom

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No kidding... I just posted another thread this morning about having to change everything... if you have any photos you could share on there I would appreciate it so much. I'm so annoyed with this shop which is supposed to be the very best around. They even have a youtube channel and are in all the reptile shows. Seems he should stick to snakes.
Believe me, I realize its frustrating. Your pet shop isn't any worse than all the rest. For decades, we've all been caring for tortoises all wrong. I started in the pet industry in 1986 and I was part of the problem. I told all my customers all the same stuff your pet shop told you. I told them that because that's what I was taught. That's what was in all the books. That's what all the vets said to do...That advice is based on 30 year old incorrect assumptions about how our tortoises live in the wild. It makes logical sense how these conclusions were reached, but there is/was a problem… It doesn't work. The care advice that is still widely dispensed to this day results in dead babies, and pyramided adults if they survive the dry routine in their beef jerky maker set-ups. Here's one way I've used to describe it: If your enclosure is too dry for an earth worm, its too dry for a baby tortoise too.

Anyhow, take heart. You've found the right care info, and now you know what went wrong before. How many other pet store customers never find any of this out? Breeders blame the new owner when the baby dies 6 weeks or 6 months later. Good people, like you, mistakenly feel like they've done something wrong, or that keeping a baby tortoise alive is some sort of cosmic mystery. We are doing what we can to spread the word, but as you are very aware, there is still much to be done and many people that still need to be reached.
 

Jenni

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Finally weighed the little guy. A few of you have asked me what his weight was. Why do we do this? To make sure he's gaining and not losing I'm assuming?

ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1505758118.278479.jpg
 

Bambam1989

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Yes. Weighing your tort is a great way to make sure it's growing. A sudden drop in weight is an early sign something may be wrong, but not always. I have also heard that once they get over 50g they are less likely to fall victim of hatchling failure syndrome... I am not an expert...
 
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Tom

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Finally weighed the little guy. A few of you have asked me what his weight was. Why do we do this? To make sure he's gaining and not losing I'm assuming?

In most of the cases of kidney damage from dry conditions, they stop growing and never make it past 50 grams, like BamBam said. If a tortoise makes it past 50 grams and is now in good conditions with good food and hydration, they will usually survive and do fine.

So this weight is a great sign! :)
 
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