Brygooi group help

michiganice91

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Hey everyone,

for those who don't already know I have a couple male P.a.b if anyone here could use them let me know.

Also if anyone here knows of any way possible to acquire a female that would be awesome. I'm a realistic person though, so if anyone knows any zoo's who could benefit from them for the sake of genetic difference, please let me know.

I love the pyxis torts and want to see them thrive so I do not need to hang onto 2 males if their purpose could be better served elsewhere.

Thanks guys!!
 

Kapidolo Farms

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The more elusive Pyxis are such based on a false sense of rarity. There are many around, but they are held tightly by people, who are playing a long game ( not meant to describe frivolous methodology). There are a$$hole flippers out there too.

As for Zoo's in general, they not a better choice than a private keeper. Zoos are made of people and with zoos the people are transitory. So even if you find a person in a zoo that seems solid, they may get thrown away or move to another zoo. Privates can loose their job and or have some other major event and sell off a collection. This is why those that hold them tight, do just that. Your difficulty in getting females is because of the people who are best at being keepers, they keep, making it more difficult for creating a breeding group. Ironic, I know.

If you are looking to get them into a breeding group I'd suggest NOT creating an agreement, but out right sell or buy. With no strings. I have stories about this, but they are for another time.

My suggestion is that you keep them and spread a wider net out their to find the females you would need. If you have grown them up, or have long term adults, maybe even from when they were imported, then those are arguments that the hardcore keepers listen to.

You say for those that already know you, and not much else. Maybe your a flipper who bought to grow out some animals and now you are cashing in?

If you are the good keeper - the females you seek might be better off in your care?

How long have you sought females through what venues?

What is the history of your males? The source of the males has no females?

Other P.a.b. have been sold here on TFO within the past few years.
 

michiganice91

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The more elusive Pyxis are such based on a false sense of rarity. There are many around, but they are held tightly by people, who are playing a long game ( not meant to describe frivolous methodology). There are a$$hole flippers out there too.

As for Zoo's in general, they not a better choice than a private keeper. Zoos are made of people and with zoos the people are transitory. So even if you find a person in a zoo that seems solid, they may get thrown away or move to another zoo. Privates can loose their job and or have some other major event and sell off a collection. This is why those that hold them tight, do just that. Your difficulty in getting females is because of the people who are best at being keepers, they keep, making it more difficult for creating a breeding group. Ironic, I know.

If you are looking to get them into a breeding group I'd suggest NOT creating an agreement, but out right sell or buy. With no strings. I have stories about this, but they are for another time.

My suggestion is that you keep them and spread a wider net out their to find the females you would need. If you have grown them up, or have long term adults, maybe even from when they were imported, then those are arguments that the hardcore keepers listen to.

You say for those that already know you, and not much else. Maybe your a flipper who bought to grow out some animals and now you are cashing in?

If you are the good keeper - the females you seek might be better off in your care?

How long have you sought females through what venues?

What is the history of your males? The source of the males has no females?

Other P.a.b. have been sold here on TFO within the past few years.

This is Will E. right? I'm pretty sure we're friends on facebook just FYI.

I'm definitely NOT a turtle "flipper". The deal is I have a CB 04 that I purchased from Will Ahrens as a hatchling. It took 11 years to show me its true sex. Because it was on the smaller side it always appeared to be female. A couple years ago I bought a male (don't know its origin) to try and make a breeding pair. I have been aggressively looking for spider tortoises for years with very little luck. Other keepers will get groups of spiders and I have no idea how they aquired them because they were never posted for sale anywhere.

I really have little hope of finding a female, or even ANY brygooi in the near future.

I even contacted the BCC with no luck.

I routinely check Fauna, FB, and Kingsnake, as well as PM known breeders.

I only mention zoos because they tend to have access to more animals than the public. I know the BCC has dozens of pyxis of all the subspecies as well as PP. I'm sure this was not based on luck.
 

deadheadvet

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Behler does not typically sell Pyxis. I know you spent time there. but that won't influence their decision. There are very few people successfully breeding Pyxis other then Will Ahrens and some of the zoos in the US. I would not expect anything from Behler in regard to Pyxis. Sometimes they do a breeding loan w/ TSA. You might contact them to see if there is any Pyxis available on breeding loan.
 

michiganice91

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Behler does not typically sell Pyxis. I know you spent time there. but that won't influence their decision. There are very few people successfully breeding Pyxis other then Will Ahrens and some of the zoos in the US. I would not expect anything from Behler in regard to Pyxis. Sometimes they do a breeding loan w/ TSA. You might contact them to see if there is any Pyxis available on breeding loan.

Behler has offered to "surplus" Paa in the past, but that's about it I think. These would look really pretty in your office Evan! ;)

Thanks for the tips.
 

deadheadvet

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Hey Dan:
Pyxis is not on my list of wants. A tortoise you never see is not anything I would want.
 

Anthony P

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When is the last time you saw a female brygooi for sale, though? I feel for you, really.

Lots of arachnoides subspecies, mostly the nominate, are being produced, brygooi included, but there are not many females coming out of those successful breedings, at least not being sold in the open, ever.
 

michiganice91

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When is the last time you saw a female brygooi for sale, though? I feel for you, really.

Lots of arachnoides subspecies, mostly the nominate, are being produced, brygooi included, but there are not many females coming out of those successful breedings, at least not being sold in the open, ever.

Hey Anthony, thanks for the reply. Could you offer any possible explanation as to the seemingly high percentage of males that seem to be out there in comparison? Something to do with incubation perhaps? Thanks.
 

Anthony P

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Hey Anthony, thanks for the reply. Could you offer any possible explanation as to the seemingly high percentage of males that seem to be out there in comparison? Something to do with incubation perhaps? Thanks.
Sorry I missed this.. Someone with far more experience breeding Pyxis (There are several out there) could certainly chime in, but since you ask, I will share my knowledge on that part of the subject. Basically, like some chelonians, incubation for Pyxis arachnoides very difficult to successfully complete. Hatching the eggs is tough enough, so it may be the last thing, maybe for a while, that a keeper wants to do, jeopardizing their success to try to figure out the TSD that may or may not be present in the species. Lack of knowledge across the board makes that the case. This happens with other species as well (G. spengleri comes to mind). And small clutch sizes ensures the available data to draw from is less extensive than it might be with other species.

Then, most successful breeding is happening in private hands. I don't know for sure, but I would guess that most (more than half) of the offspring produced are sold to other hobbyists. That makes it tough to keep detailed records about incubation over time.

I know there is at least one person producing mostly females. My group came from him and is female heavy, surprisingly.

Ultimately though, these things take time. It was very tough to successfully incubate and hatch arachnoides eggs, and producing females has been perhaps equally tough, from what I understand, for similar reasons, including the added pressure of losing eggs going for females, after finally being successful in incubation in general.

There are many people who would know better than I though, who have been in the middle of this effort for a ing time. Hopefully they will share their opinions.
 

tomt

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Actually I have a similar need. I have a female p.a.a. in need of a male. If anyone happens to have an extra at a reasonable price, I would be interested. Thanks Tom
My email is [email protected]
 

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