Backwaterreptiles.com

spaceclown

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5 Year Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
24
Invoice.jpg I wanted to share with everyone my experience with the company Blackwaterreptiles.com. I purchased a juvenile Yellow Foot Tortoise from them. There website looks professional and legit but I was wrong. This is the Yellow Foot they sent me. I was in shock that this poor animal has been treated with such neglect. I just cant image anyone or company selling a tortoise in this condition without disclosing upfront her health. After several emails explaining my concerns to them they gave me a partial refund. I was told that there Yellow Foots are wild caught. They don't have anywhere on the website saying this. At first they argued with me saying I was wrong in stated tortoise has shell rot and possibly MBD even after I provided pictures to them. I kept getting the response "we'll let our shipping manager/department aware of my concerns". At one point they wanted me to return the tortoise for either a replacement or refund. I explained to them that this is not an option because of the likelihood of her being disposed of. I will never again buy anything from this company. FYI. I have been nursing her back to health. I might post a thread about her progress soon.IMG_5014.JPG IMG_5015.JPG IMG_5016.JPG
 

spaceclown

New Member
5 Year Member
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Apr 29, 2012
Messages
24
I know I failed to do more research before my purchase. At least she's in a better home getting proper care. Ive uploaded a video of the unboxing to show I did receive her in that condition.

Here is a link to my post about her road back to good health. She seems in really good spirits. http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/shell-in-bad-shape.124442/
 
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Running Elk

Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
71
I had a similarly bad experience. I ordered an Asian Box Turtle and a baby desert box turtle. The baby box turtle was actually a three toed, which was sold to me at double the price. I was going to send it back, but I had read in other reviews that many times they will get you to send the animal back and not issue a refund, taking both the animal and your money. Not being PAYPAL affiliated, I decided not to do that. The little turtle had numerous problems and eventually died. The Asian box turtle I still have, she arrived thin and lightweight. It took a lot of care to get her where she is now. The place sucks. Very few good reviews of them.
 

Robertchrisroph

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Joined
May 10, 2014
Messages
385
Location (City and/or State)
Ukiah Ca.
Hi Robert,


Thank you for your email.


Regarding negative comments, we are the #1 ranked reptile website on the Internet, and that means we have a target on our back. We even have competitors posting things about us, posing as customers. Our industry is very vicious. Also, we can ship 100 orders, and 99 customers are pleased, and one is not, and it's the one customer who will post negative reviews. Happy customers just generally don't post reviews.


We have over 27,000 likes on our Facebook page if that helps. Also, if something happens with an animal we ship, we offer a 7 Day Guarantee with every animal.


Thanks,



Amanda

Backwater Reptiles

Fax: (512) 646-3194

Like us on Facebook



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: General Question
From: <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, September 08, 2015 12:55 pm
To: [email protected]

Your Name: robert

Your Email: [email protected]

Subject: General Question

Message: Good day to you guys. Just a note. You have terrible reviews out there online. Some are pretty bad.

This is there reply to me asking why?
 

Kapidolo Farms

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
5,173
Location (City and/or State)
South of Southern California, but not Mexico
I bought some pancakes from Backwater and the whole transaction was so bungled even now getting on three and half years later it is still annoying. My first review here on TFO was so inflammatory the moderators removed it, the second review more objective is still here I believe.

In essence they are a widget company.

I sourced much background on the transaction, the company, and how they do business - - it seems a credible speculation they are some sort of Cal F&G and/or USFWS sting operation, even several years running they could one day come knocking on your door with a badge. I do not trust their competency to manage live animals, nor their business model.

Granite Bay CA is/was the company headquarters and they sell crocodilians. They tired to talk me into a caiman purchase in CA (illegal) then they wanted me to forward a crocodile returned payment to me onto someone in Alaska via PayPal who had been the alleged actual purchasers of the caiman in the first place, they shared that customers information with me (that aint right). When I actually got the two 'female pancakes they came from a jobber in Texas and within a few months one has died the other became a male.

The shipper in Texas recycled the shipping box from somewhere else and with that I was able to sort out the source of the pancakes, a dealer that had been kicked out of trade shows in Texas for unpacking shipments that still has import broker stamps/certs at shows for Captive bred. That person had a very negative pedigree on Fauna's BOI and an arrest record for their dealings.

What does everyone do when they are arrested, for the most part, flip on other people and draw others in, so they can weasel their way out.

There is more, but that is all for now. Something is not right. They may move a large volume of items, but scaled to quality they are not good. Buy from a breeder, or if seeking WC scout your source with higher scrutiny.
 

theguy67

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
583
I just realized that this is an old thread after typing the below statement, but it may be important to add.....


I had the same exact experience last year. In May of 2015 I ordered 2 female red foots from Backwater Reptiles. Both had shell rot, and small pieces of shell missing to the point that you could see exposed bone. I didn't say much as I knew there wasn't anything that could be done, and I wasn't going to send them back. 1 of the females was smaller than the advertised size, so I basically was charged more for a smaller animal, which I probably would have received the same animal if I chose the smaller size anyway. I'm not sure if this is normal for shipping reptiles, but the smaller one was in a plastic "berry" container, like you would purchase strawberries in, covered in feces. Sure, you can't control if the animal defecates, but a breathable bag would probably be less stressful, and absorb some of the waste. The larger one was in a bag, like I have received many reptiles in before.

Both animals recovered from what I would consider "mild" conditions. I removed the top layer of rotted shell and kept them dry. I also concluded that they were probably wild caught due to their condition, and their near perfect shells. Also their temperaments were quite timid.

Also, I don't think the number of Facebook "likes" has any indication to the quality of the business or how ethical the practice is. Even if you have 99 quality animals, with 99 happy customers. If you have 1 animal that is poorly handled and cared for, that's very bad business to send it out.

Its obvious they do not care about their product.
 

Clocktower6

New Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2016
Messages
3
I bought 3 tortoises from Backwater. Two were healthy the third was sick. They refused to do much and when it died after the 7 day "live gaurrantee" they claimed it was healthy and it was my fault. Internet searches show the owner (Sam Sundberg) posing as club members and posting positive reviews about himself. PLEASE stay away. There are cheaper and more honest folks out there.
 

TortoiseBandock

New Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2017
Messages
3
I purchased my Russian Tortoise from BackWater Reptiles and she's perfectly fine, she was a bit thin and had shell issues when she first got here but she's all good now. I had minor issues, but I had no issues with them at all. I use Arizona Tortoise Compound for most of my needs, as Andrew Hermes is knowledgable and actually has a PHONE!
 

Clocktower6

New Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2016
Messages
3
Really ??? You consider "thin with shell issues", to be "perfectly fine"..... Maybe I just have unrealistically high standards, but when I buy a live creature I expect it to be robust and healthy. Sam Sundberg at Blackwater gives you a "Live gaurantee" but he sells sick and feeble animals. They may be on life support, but they're still kick'n !!! ...STAY AWAY from Backwater ! There are honest breeders with better prices!

BTW, Sam still charges $50.00 or more for the dead animals...I'm NOT KIDDING....Read his FINE PRINT!
 

TortoiseBandock

New Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2017
Messages
3
Let me take back that statement, I was thinking of Arizona Tortoise Compound (Amazing company, love them, Andrew's a great guy) and BackWater Reptiles at the same time and when I said, "Perfectly fine", I was actually speaking of my Sulcata. I wrote that post quite quickly before I left the house and I didn't proofread, I apologize for that.
 

Ali Richardson

New Member
Joined
May 21, 2017
Messages
19
Location (City and/or State)
Dana Point, CA
I purchased a Russian tortoise from backwater reptiles earlier this year. I'm a reptile rookie and didn't know where else to buy a tortoise. They were very nice and the shipping went perfectly according to plan. My tortoise appeared healthy upon arrival and all was well. They told me she was a 10 month old captive bread hatchling. Soon after I got her, she had an intestinal prolapse that forced me to have her put down. The vet told me that he was certain that she was a wild caught full grown adult and a belly full of parasites was likely the cause of the prolapse. Had I known she was wild caught, I would have had a fecal test done right away to asses her health. When I wrote them telling them that she had to be put down they apologized and said it must have been a fluke and that it was very uncommon. I feel this company has no clue what they're selling or how to properly care for them. It's sad and I will not purchase from them again.
 
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