Arizona desert tortoise not eating.

[aztortoisemullett]

Hey guys, my Arizona desert tortoise eating has slowed over the past few weeks and basically stopped a few days ago. Shes also become pretty inactive.

I recently moved her from her outside habitat to an inside 40 gallon terrarium that I just bought. Its been getting cold out at night so that's why I brought her in. I soak her every other day for 20 minutes, she drinks a fair amount still. She hasn't pooped in a while, the last time I soaked her was yesterday and some of that white calcium stuff came out. Hot side of her habitat is about 92, cold side is 80. Humidity is 58%. Her diet consists mainly of spring mix and assorted greens like bok Choy, parsley and other greens that I switch every few days. She's a year and a half old and weighs about 12.7 ounces

I'm unsure if this is an emergency, I am wondering if I screwed up her hibernation pattern somehow by bringing her in from the colder weather into a warm habitat? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[ascott]

Well, are you going to support brumation for the tort (perhaps a shorter brumation so the tortoise feels satisfied) or are you going to attempt to force the tort to remain awake for winter?

 

[Ciri]

how many days has it been since she last ate any food? If it is been at least 10 days, then you can lower the temperature gradually over a few days, to prepare her for hibernation. Don't give her food anymore. It's good you're weighing her, so you will have a record of her weight during hibernation. When you hibernate her, it will be important to wake her up and soak her every two weeks. You'll need to weigh her at that time, and if she has loses more than 7% of the starting weight, then she needs to be brought out of hibernation if she cannot gain that weight back through soaking. If that happens, then she would likely be sick, and would need to be seen by reptile veterinarian.

You can hibernate her outdoors – see this desert tortoise care sheet – look under cold-weather care:

http://www.desertmuseum.org/programs/tap_tortcare.php

also:

http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/tortoise/coldweathercare.shtml

You might want to start thinking now about healthier food plants for her. Both websites above have good diet information, including information about nutritional needs for hatchlings and juveniles under three years old. Also, this is a link to a brochure with information on Arizona native plants for desert tortoises:

http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/tortoise/documents/NativePlantsforDesertTortoises_2008.pdf

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Tom]

You've got to decide whether you want to hibernate her, or keep her up all winter, and begin adjusting accordingly. It is not safe to hibernate them outside. A large percentage of those die every year.

Here is a response I typed up a week or two ago for someone with a similar issue. It might shed some light for you too:
I typed this up for someone who was deciding whether or not to hibernate. I think it will give you what you are looking for. I've copy/pasted this thing 4 times now. I really need to do a thread on this...

"They will not be able to hibernate at room temp. Its too warm. You will need to decide to either keep them up, or hibernate them properly. Right now they are in a bit of a "limbo", and that is not good. I've used the following methods for dozens of DTs from babies to adults, as well as many other tortoise and reptile species that come from areas with a natural hibernation period.

While I have kept hibernating species awake through winter and I know others have successfully done it too, it is my opinion that species that hibernate in the wild should also hibernate in captivity. It just needs to be done correctly. Leaving them outside to figure it out and deal with the rigors of winter in the small spaces (like backyards) that we stick them in, is not my idea of doing it "correctly". I know far too many that have died this way. Don't let these horror stories from people who did not properly prepare, or hibernate their animals in a safe, controlled way, scare you. Hibernation is totally natural and totally safe when a few simple guidelines are observed. Simple Guidelines:
1. Bring them down, and up, gradually.
2. Make sure their gut is empty before dropping temps. Two weeks of no food with the normal warm temps should do it.
3. Make sure they are well hydrated by soaking them, before and after hibernation.
4. Make sure the temperature is consistent and cold enough for the entire hibernation time.
5. Don't let them do it in a self dug burrow in your backyard. NOT safe!

To keep them up: You will need to keep them warm, day and night. The enclosure needs to be nice and bright too, so add a 6500K florescent tube, if need be. I set lights to come on an hour or two before the sun comes up and stay on for a good two hours after the sun goes down. Daily warm soaks, or every other day, seems to help convince their brains that its not sleepy time. I would still give them outside time all winter long as long as its sunny and warm-ish. The sun really helps and we have such nice mild winters here in SoCal.

To hibernate them: The dangerous parts of hibernation (flooding, burrow collapse, rodents, temperature extremes, etc..) can all be eliminated by bringing them inside into controlled conditions and prepping them correctly. While they have adapted to survive these conditions out in the wild for millennia, our back yards are not the wild. Not even close. The shallow burrows they construct in our yards are not enough to protect them from the whims of a cruel mother nature, and as Yvonne adeptly pointed out, many of them don't survive hibernation in the wild, or outdoors in captivity either. I have hibernated all ages of DTs using the following methods: It is often said that "tortoises do better outside". True some of the time in some instances, but not all of the time in all instances. Most babies actually do better inside most of the time. As such, when night temps really start to drop, as they did about two weeks ago, I bring small hibernating species of tortoises inside to their indoor set ups every evening. I feed them up for a good two or three weeks, and soak them daily or every other day. Then I leave the timers and heat and everything on and running, but I quit feeding them. I give them around two weeks with no food, daily soaks, and warm day time temps, as usual. After those two weeks, I start adjusting the light timers down and raise the fixtures a bit to lower basking temps. I let night temps drop as low as is practical for indoors. I'll do this for another week or two. Then I put them into their individual hibernacula. I use plastic shoe boxes, or something similar, with a couple of inches of substrate on the bottom. I keep them dry at this time. In the past I've used non-functioning fridges or freezers laid on their backs in a cool area to keep the shoe boxes in. Currently the floor of my garage stays around 50-55 all winter and I've used that for the last few years. The problem is that we keep having these weird warm winters with daily highs in the 80s or 90s sometimes, for days or weeks on end. Good for my non-hibernating species, but not so good for the hibernators. This year I'm getting them a dedicated fridge, so I don't have to worry about the weather and I won't have to try to fight the temperature outside. I'll set it to around 45 degrees F. I let first timers go for 8-10 weeks under these controlled conditions. Older ones will go for 12-16 weeks. I watch the temps, but I don't mess with them during hibernation. When the weather starts to warm up, I gradually warm up the fridge and let warmer air into the hibernation area, and at some point after a few days, I pull them out, soak them in shallow room temp water, and put them back into their indoor enclosures with no heat. Just room temp. I soak daily for a bout two weeks. After a few days, I will turn the lights on. I leave the fixtures at their higher adjustment at first and gradually, over the course of a few days, lower them back down to get the right basking temps. After the tortoises activity level comes up, and they start moving around more, I will begin offering food, and letting them run around in their outdoor pens on warmer days, but I still bring them in to escape the cold nights. For older/bigger tortoises that can't come back inside, I simply use an outdoor heated night box to do just about the same thing. The night box more or less takes the place of the indoor enclosure and gives me a way to keep them warmer at night while preparing for hibernation or coming out of it.

The above methods have worked perfectly for me for many years with a wide variety of reptile species. The only time I ever lost an animal during hibernation is when I took the advice of a very knowledgeable man, who didn't understand our climate, and let my tegus hibernate outside as he did in his climate. I lost two out of three that year. It was heartbreaking.

I don't have set dates for any of this, and I sort of go by "feel" and the weather on either end of hibernation. If we have a long summer with a warm fall, I wait longer to put them down. If we have an early spring, I wake them up sooner. Generally I try to get them down by December, and get them up sometime in March.


I know that is a lot to read. Please feel free to ask lots of questions. We will help you, whichever way you decide to go."

 

[aztortoisemullett]

I've been told she's still a bit too small for hibernation? If I didn't want her to hibernate, how would I go about waking her up? It seems as though waking her up does nothing and she goes right back to sleep, but she does have a drink whenever she is up though.

I know it's a natural and necessary thing to hibernate, and I'm prepared to do it, but I just want to make sure she isn't sick either.

 

[Tom]

I've been told she's still a bit too small for hibernation? If I didn't want her to hibernate, how would I go about waking her up? It seems as though waking her up does nothing and she goes right back to sleep, but she does have a drink whenever she is up though.

I know it's a natural and necessary thing to hibernate, and I'm prepared to do it, but I just want to make sure she isn't sick either.

To keep them up: You will need to keep them warm, day and night. The enclosure needs to be nice and bright too, so add a 6500K florescent tube, if need be. I set lights to come on an hour or two before the sun comes up and stay on for a good two hours after the sun goes down. Daily warm soaks, or every other day, seems to help convince their brains that its not sleepy time. I would still give them outside time all winter long as long as its sunny and warm-ish. The sun really helps and we have such nice mild winters here in SoCal.

 

[Ciri]

a vet visit would probably be a good idea. Then you'll know for sure if the reason that she's not eating is because she's sick, or just wants to hibernate. Since you seem to be in Arizona, if you're in Tucson I would recommend my reptile veterinarian who is well trained in desert tortoise care. He's taken care of the Arizona Sonora Desert Museum's desert tortoises for 35 years, as well known as one of the top reptile veterinarians. He is Dr. James Jarchow. If you're not in Tucson, I'm sure there are good reptile veterinarians in Phoenix. You can try contacting the Phoenix herpetological society. Meanwhile, you need to keep her awake if you can. You might try switching out her foods to see if that peaks her interest.

I should have sent you this link on the Arizona game and Fish website, as it deals specifically with hatchlings. It includes food info:

http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/tortoise/hatchling.shtml