Another leopard tortoise slow to gain weight

hhilgen2

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I figured I'd create my own thread so as not to thread-jack :). I acquired my leopard hatchling in the beginning of June from a breeder that came highly recommended from this forum. He has been very active, eating everything in sight and pooping solidly. He moves to different spots in his enclosure to thermoregulate throughout the day. His shell is firm, but the plastron is slightly pliable, which I think is probably normal for a hatchling. However, he has gained only a gram in the past month. He was 33 grams when I got him and is now a whopping 34 grams.....I'm really worried about the little bugger and hoped that everyone could go over my husbandry to see if there's anything I can improve. He spends the majority of his day outside and comes inside only for the night.

Outdoor pen: 4ft by 8ft. Free growing clover, dandelion, yard grass, and broad leaf plantain. He eats all of these, but seems to prefer plantain. He goes outside when the temp is above 72 and below 105 (average temperature outside is 85F). There is a basking spot of clay and a tile that heats up nicely, about mid 90's when I temp'd it. Shallow water bowl in ground and hides, along with daylily and bermuda grass for shelter. Humidity around here right now is about 80%. I see him grazing nearly every time I'm outside.

Indoor: large underbed sweaterbox with cover. Heat provided with ceramic emitter. Warm spot is 95F, cool end is 77-78. Substrate is cypress bark. Humidity on hot end is 75-80%, about 50-60% on cool end. The substrate is moistened on the hot side so that we follow the hot-humid, cool-dry principle to let him choose what suits him best. Numerous hides are provided throughout so he can feel secure at any "micro climate".

We calcium supplement 2-3 times weekly. Fecal exam was negative.
 

wellington

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Everything sounds very good. I would give him some time. I remember when I first got mine, it seemed to take forever for him to grow. Once he started, it didn't seem to stop until now, at four years old, it's not as noticeable. I did find, that once I started to feed mazuri, he started to grow.
 

hhilgen2

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I have tried Trojan-ing Mazuri in every way I can think of. He won't have it. Cigared in greens, mixed in with chopped greens, sandwiched, on a bit of forbidden fruit. Wet, dry, low, high. I'm like the Dr. Seuss of Mazuri.
 

wellington

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yep, took mine a while too and many attempts from me. I would just keep trying until he finally started to eat it
 

Neal

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If you've only had him a month, there may not be a lot to worry about just yet.

Do you know what size the producing adults are? Do you know the growth rates of the siblings? Do you know what temperature it was incubated at?

Everything appears to be good with the care you have described. I don't see any need for concern, though I would continue to diligently monitor its behavior and eating habbits.
 

Careym13

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You could try some opuntia cactus pads (cut into small strips)...that is a huge favorite of my leo's and they both started gaining weight after I started offering it to them a few times a week.
 

Careym13

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As of this morning, the baby was back down to 33grams. This is so disheartening!

Don't give up! Just keep trying a variety of foods...Hibiscus leaves and flowers are another good option if you haven't tried those yet.
 

David Harmon

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yep, took mine a while too and many attempts from me. I would just keep trying until he finally started to eat it
hello Wellington mine won't even try the mazuri but i do only offer once a week as thought it would be to rich for them?
 

Tom

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I figured I'd create my own thread so as not to thread-jack :). I acquired my leopard hatchling in the beginning of June from a breeder that came highly recommended from this forum. He has been very active, eating everything in sight and pooping solidly. He moves to different spots in his enclosure to thermoregulate throughout the day. His shell is firm, but the plastron is slightly pliable, which I think is probably normal for a hatchling. However, he has gained only a gram in the past month. He was 33 grams when I got him and is now a whopping 34 grams.....I'm really worried about the little bugger and hoped that everyone could go over my husbandry to see if there's anything I can improve. He spends the majority of his day outside and comes inside only for the night.

Outdoor pen: 4ft by 8ft. Free growing clover, dandelion, yard grass, and broad leaf plantain. He eats all of these, but seems to prefer plantain. He goes outside when the temp is above 72 and below 105 (average temperature outside is 85F). There is a basking spot of clay and a tile that heats up nicely, about mid 90's when I temp'd it. Shallow water bowl in ground and hides, along with daylily and bermuda grass for shelter. Humidity around here right now is about 80%. I see him grazing nearly every time I'm outside.

Indoor: large underbed sweaterbox with cover. Heat provided with ceramic emitter. Warm spot is 95F, cool end is 77-78. Substrate is cypress bark. Humidity on hot end is 75-80%, about 50-60% on cool end. The substrate is moistened on the hot side so that we follow the hot-humid, cool-dry principle to let him choose what suits him best. Numerous hides are provided throughout so he can feel secure at any "micro climate".

We calcium supplement 2-3 times weekly. Fecal exam was negative.

Given how you are housing your baby, your results are completely predictable. I'm sorry, but I think you have gotten bad advice for starting a leopard baby and I have a couple of guesses on the source.


Outside all day is not good for small babies. This failure to thrive is what usually happens. There are some breeders here that start them too dry in my opinion, and again, failure to thrive is the result. These breeders need to see repeated demonstrations of this in order for them to understand that their methods need improvement. So who did you get it from?

Small babies should be mostly indoors. Outdoor excursions for an hour or two a few times a week is all that is needed. As they gain size and are obviously thriving, I increase the amount of time spent outside. Outside living slows them way down, even if temps and humidity seem good to us.

Likewise, if you have a heat lamp over that sweater box, there is no way your humidity is that high, unless the whole room is at 80% humidity all the time. I suspect a bad gauge. Sweater boxes are the worst possible way to house baby leopards as they do not hold in any heat or humidity. I suggest you switch to a closed chamber ASAP, even though the damage may have already been done here.
 

hhilgen2

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I guess I'm confused. .. the sweater box is closed. There is an opening for the heating element and the rest is completely enclosed. I feel that the humidity reading is pretty accurate, especially considering it's reading about 45% on room air.

I can certainly move him primarily inside as nothing else seems to be working, but I've honestly seen him eating the best after moving him to an outdoor pen. I'm a tad concerned about the tradeoff between reduced food intake vs risks of outdoor exposure.
 

hhilgen2

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He was from ATC, who has not given any husbandry advice. I actually just emailed him today with my concerns and haven't heard back yet. I've taken most of my hatchling care information from this forum.
 

Tom

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I guess I'm confused. .. the sweater box is closed. There is an opening for the heating element and the rest is completely enclosed. I feel that the humidity reading is pretty accurate, especially considering it's reading about 45% on room air.

I can certainly move him primarily inside as nothing else seems to be working, but I've honestly seen him eating the best after moving him to an outdoor pen. I'm a tad concerned about the tradeoff between reduced food intake vs risks of outdoor exposure.

Sorry, I didn't realize the sweater box had a covered top. Most people who use them leave them open. My apologies. This also means that your hygrometer is probably accurate. Sounds like you are on the ball with all the care info.

This takes us back to how your baby was started. Andy is a great guy. Very nice person, but he and I disagree about how to best start babies. I believe they need more hydration and the stability of an indoor enclosure done right, like yours appears to be, for them to really do well and thrive.

@Az tortoise compound Please chime in here. Why is this baby not growing?
 

hhilgen2

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The little leopard has been gobbling up opuntia mixed with mazuri with a vengeance. Astoundingly, he's lost a gram and was 32 grams this morning. We'll just continue to care for him the best we can and hope for some sort of miraculous recovery.
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Neal

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Good news, let him stuff his face as much as he will eat. It looks like there is some new growth on his plastron, that's usually the first sign of growth, the carapace will start to expand shortly after.
 

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