Activity/food search as a component of good care

Kapidolo Farms

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Yeah this is all good reasoning on the difference between kinds of diets and metabolism that goes with a tortoises versus a dog, versus a deer etc.

I think, maybe wrong on this, but what about the enrichment an outdoor tortoise that grazes (an exercise) gets that an equal amount and type of foods an indoor tortoise does not get.

I have spent some time watching some outdoor radiated and they walk about a rather large enclosure eating some of this and some of that, like the fun some people might get from shopping in a mall, while (to run with the metaphor) the inside enclosure tortoises gets everything via Amazon, and does not 'get-out' much.

So somewhat beyond actual food quality or quantity, maybe even the exercise, do those outdoor tortoises have "fun" picking and choosing what they eat. Does it qualify as enrichment?

I tend to think of tortoises more like automatons and that they don't care some much about this kind of thing. But the recent tortoise watching in friends yard with the radiated got me thinking about this and RedFire's question popped up.

Radiated are pretty fearless and don't seem to care if your in their enclosure, they also didn't come running over to me like I'm the monkey dropping food for them. They just went about their business like I was not there.

I feed most all the tortoises I have everyday. When I skip a day it's for my need to move the enclosure projects ahead, or work on the honeydo list. I see they will slacken off eating at about four or five days in a row of an overabundance, they still eat but less until that fast day, followed by a clean the food tile off eating day. The Pancakes are the most difficult to see what's happening as each individual cycles on their own for gorging or low intake days. The day after a fast day for them, and the tile is always picked clean.
 

Tom

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Most people "free feed" themselves and only a percentage end up obese. I would imagine the same is true with your pets.

Man is this true for me. I'm a self free feeder. I have to adjust my activity level as needed, because I have a lot of trouble adjusting the food level lower...
 

Tom

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I don't believe an animal expends energy without a purpose , exercise not being one of these purposes .... i'd think evolution has gotten rid of the ones who waste energy ...............pacing is a common behavior in captive animals , you won't see it in nature ........

I saw one study that charted how many miles a bunch of captive wolves covered while pacing in their large enclosures. It was the same distance a wild wolf would cover out in the world.
 

Anyfoot

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Our redfoot tortoises are active constantly if we only feed weeds and flowers. Feed fruit and they have the fill and go hold up for that day. Let them gorge on animal protein (chicks) and they will go hold up for a few days, I've had some 3 and 4 days without eating, we feed every day.
Also I've noticed if we feed fruit it takes a couple of days for the runnier poop to come through, it takes 4 to 5 days for the protein (chicks) to come through.
When we feed protein I know the day after the foliage will be wasted.
If we throw fruit or protein into the outdoor enclosure they gorge on it then go dig in. If we don't throw fruit in they spend hours walking about and having a chomp on anything that's foliage.
So from what I've seen it depends on what they eat as to whether they should be fed every day. I know I'm wasting my time feeding the day after a protein feed.
I used to worry about not seeing some of them for days until I read in a book that they will go hold up for days after gorging on carrion. Makes sense really.
They are getting the exercise in search of filling the stomach, whether it be a 30 minute gorge on protein or a 4 hr gorge picking at weeds and flowers.
 

mark1

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I saw one study that charted how many miles a bunch of captive wolves covered while pacing in their large enclosures. It was the same distance a wild wolf would cover out in the world.
I don't doubt it Tom , I've watched them , it doesn't take long to see the repetitive movements ...... I've suggested to the keepers they should keep rabbits in the enclosure , apparently it's not something they want the public to possibly see ......... their miles are driven by neurosis , wild wolves by survival , the distances wild wolves travel is a product of prey density ......... my dogs thoroughly enjoy a good woodpile , or some underbrush , they find it therapeutic ...... I would add the range of a turtle or tortoises territory is a product of available resources .....
 

counting

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So when I first joined here I asked a question about tortoise enrichment. And I plan on trying since my tortoise will be largely indoors.

Anyway:
Finding ways to encourage engagement and stimulation for the animal. Most animals are food motivated. Seeking food and water, shelter, a mate, is their primary focus(in that order).for reptiles add in heat regulation.A lot of people responded to my question with the reponse iirc, that a diverse and interesting enclosure is enough.
I plan on using treat balls (such as the type for cats and dogs)stuffed with green stuffs for my tort to push around and feed from. Hide preferred foods or to some degree spread them out to simulate foraging such as they would get in the wild.
Most herbivores are designed to walk fair distances and eat small amounts near constantly. Not a large bulk of easily available food which doesn't require effort to obtain.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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So when I first joined here I asked a question about tortoise enrichment. And I plan on trying since my tortoise will be largely indoors.

Anyway:
Finding ways to encourage engagement and stimulation for the animal. Most animals are food motivated. Seeking food and water, shelter, a mate, is their primary focus(in that order).for reptiles add in heat regulation.A lot of people responded to my question with the reponse iirc, that a diverse and interesting enclosure is enough.
I plan on using treat balls (such as the type for cats and dogs)stuffed with green stuffs for my tort to push around and feed from. Hide preferred foods or to some degree spread them out to simulate foraging such as they would get in the wild.
Most herbivores are designed to walk fair distances and eat small amounts near constantly. Not a large bulk of easily available food which doesn't require effort to obtain.


It depends on the specific species I think. Gopher tortoises can be found by the grazed 'skirt' of grass near the otherwise hidden burrow entrance. I got to where I could find wild leopards quickly just by looking for the shrub with the accumulations of tortoise poop, and then scan out a few hundred feet and find them.

Others do seem to have a a large area they wander. Box turtles ( I know not really a tortoise) also have small ranges and can be found by their feeding behaviors as well.

I have scattered the pancakes' food about their enclosure and they will eat most of it, especially after a fast day.

I think this is the direction @RedFire was going??
 

Kenno

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In response to the concept of wasting energy, my torts definitely engage in playful behavior at times. One likes to climb up a slanted board and slide back down, another makes an obstacle course out of climbing through chair legs and wooden braces, and another just loves to tangle in and pull against a coiled hose. He goes back and forth through it. They can do this for hours. There is no food hunting or search for escape involved. They can free feed on grass and weeds in my yard, including Sonoran weeds from special seed mixes.
 

Big Charlie

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In response to the concept of wasting energy, my torts definitely engage in playful behavior at times. One likes to climb up a slanted board and slide back down, another makes an obstacle course out of climbing through chair legs and wooden braces, and another just loves to tangle in and pull against a coiled hose. He goes back and forth through it. They can do this for hours. There is no food hunting or search for escape involved. They can free feed on grass and weeds in my yard, including Sonoran weeds from special seed mixes.
I agree. I don't think Charlie's pacing has anything to do with trying to escape. When he comes up on the patio, he looks like he is attempting an obstacle course as well. He tries to maneuver in the tightest spaces. Even when he is pacing, he doesn't appear agitated. I think he is just patrolling his territory. He mostly does it on one side of our yard, probably because there is a large wall there and his path continues into a narrow side yard where nothing grows so there is nothing to do but walk back the way he came. The rest of the yard is more open.
 

RedFire

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@Will I think I can understand the most of these replies. They gave these point:1.tortoises not like mammals, they gain little from eating. 2.some species need store nutrition for hibernation. 3.they don't eat everything they can eat in big enclosure, they choose which they prefer to and they got activity. 4.In indoor enclosure should give blocks and diverse landscape, it's good for activity.

My caring,only caring is how to breed tortoises better in indoor enclosure as best as I can. There is no plant growing, because it eaten by tortoises before grow up, so they won't have food choice, just only throw food into enclosure. So, I have to give less food and make them activity and give less food.

And the store nutrition for preparing hibernation speaking, they don't always store for that, they have wake up, normal living and store steps before hibernation.

Indoor enclosure, we can give blocks and diverse landscape increase their activity, but they are not depend on this, searching food I think it's the first motive.

Not just hungry them, make them have hungry time.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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@Will I think I can understand the most of these replies. They gave these point:1.tortoises not like mammals, they gain little from eating. 2.some species need store nutrition for hibernation. 3.they don't eat everything they can eat in big enclosure, they choose which they prefer to and they got activity. 4.In indoor enclosure should give blocks and diverse landscape, it's good for activity.

My caring,only caring is how to breed tortoises better in indoor enclosure as best as I can. There is no plant growing, because it eaten by tortoises before grow up, so they won't have food choice, just only throw food into enclosure. So, I have to give less food and make them activity and give less food.

And the store nutrition for preparing hibernation speaking, they don't always store for that, they have wake up, normal living and store steps before hibernation.

Indoor enclosure, we can give blocks and diverse landscape increase their activity, but they are not depend on this, searching food I think it's the first motive.

Not just hungry them, make them have hungry time.


Something that can be done inside to help with stimulation is to have food offered in only one place at a time, but not the same place every time.

Three places for food, but fed only at one place each time. That way they still have to do some search.
 
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