Welcome to Tortoise Forum!

-EJ · 10-06-2009, 06:31 PM

yea... they are not going to become extinct anytime soon... because of the pet trade.

As to rescues... I take in quite a few a year. I'm not a rescue. I keep a few and find homes for the rest. I've been doing that for years. I don't need the badge. The point is that I can always find a home for these 'unwanted' sulcata.

As to the enclosure... I've kept many tortoises in small enclosures... until they outgrow them.

The shops... those enclosures are temporary.

Every Sulcata breeder I know is as passionate about the hobby as you or I.

You really need to look past the hype.

(10-06-2009 06:14 PM)Candy Wrote: If seeing something trapped in a box that is not big enough to hold them and let them have freedom is judgmental than you've got me. This petstore has already been sited more than once or did you not read that part? I find it hard to believe (from what I've seen on here and at the reptile shows that Sulcata's are going to be extinct anytime soon. And as for the rescues you could be right because I think the majority of them die before they make it to the rescues, but I'll wait for the ones who do rescue them like Maggie or Yvonne to post their information for you. From what I've seen at the reptile shows it is the equivalent of what puppy mills do.

Ed
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Stephanie Logan · 10-06-2009, 06:40 PM

http://harpoandfriends.homestead.com/Harpostory.html

People who want a Sulcata really do need to read Harpo's story at the link above. I thought it was funny and it was clear that the owner loved her reptile "project in the works", but the essay truly reveals the amount of time, space and food that are necessary to properly house these magnificent creatures!

Once again, thanks for the laugh, Maggie. Bob dragging his water dish over to his hay pile to wet it down...you really need to post some video of this character. :-)

-EJ · (This post was last modified: 10-06-2009 06:46 PM by -EJ.)

you are sooooooooooooo sweet. Tank you.

My offer still stands... I can find all the homes you need.

To put it in perspective... as many that are sold... are they really a problem?

(10-06-2009 06:27 PM)maggie3fan Wrote: Neither Yvonne nor I will post any information for EJ. He lives on the East Coast and has said in the past that he can find homes for any number of Sulcata that we can send to him. So in his part of the world like I said before, they don't see Sulcata like we do, over bred, abused, mistreated and unwanted.
EJ is a very experienced keeper and has written several books on keeping different species. In fact if memory serves, one book he wrote was on keeping Sulcata and Leopards. I think another was on keeping Russians. OK, now EJ...where's my money for the pitch I just gave for your books???

These are extremes and are not the norm... again... consider how many are sold and how many get passed on.

(10-06-2009 06:40 PM)Stephanie Logan Wrote: http://harpoandfriends.homestead.com/Harpostory.html

People who want a Sulcata really do need to read Harpo's story at the link above. I thought it was funny and it was clear that the owner loved her reptile "project in the works", but the essay truly reveals the amount of time, space and food that are necessary to properly house these magnificent creatures!

Once again, thanks for the laugh, Maggie. Bob dragging his water dish over to his hay pile to wet it down...you really need to post some video of this character. :-)

Candy · 10-06-2009, 07:29 PM

(10-06-2009 06:40 PM)Stephanie Logan Wrote: http://harpoandfriends.homestead.com/Harpostory.html

People who want a Sulcata really do need to read Harpo's story at the link above. I thought it was funny and it was clear that the owner loved her reptile "project in the works", but the essay truly reveals the amount of time, space and food that are necessary to properly house these magnificent creatures!

Once again, thanks for the laugh, Maggie. Bob dragging his water dish over to his hay pile to wet it down...you really need to post some video of this character. :-)

That story truly is wonderful. If anyone was thinking of buying one of these huge creatures they should definitely read this story first. Actually it kind of reminds me of Maggie's Bob except Bob is about 70 lbs so a bit bigger the Harpo was. I love to see people's Sulcatas on this site, but I have to admire them for raising them (when they're raised properly I mean). I love to see Bob and Dudley they are characters. Thanks for posting the story hopefully people read it and learn something from it. Wink

-EJ · 10-06-2009, 08:08 PM

I guess you missed this in another post...
[Image: DanielleInSulcataHole.jpg]

The photo has been well used... Those tortoises are 100lb+ each.

(10-06-2009 07:29 PM)Candy Wrote:
(10-06-2009 06:40 PM)Stephanie Logan Wrote: http://harpoandfriends.homestead.com/Harpostory.html

People who want a Sulcata really do need to read Harpo's story at the link above. I thought it was funny and it was clear that the owner loved her reptile "project in the works", but the essay truly reveals the amount of time, space and food that are necessary to properly house these magnificent creatures!

Once again, thanks for the laugh, Maggie. Bob dragging his water dish over to his hay pile to wet it down...you really need to post some video of this character. :-)

That story truly is wonderful. If anyone was thinking of buying one of these huge creatures they should definitely read this story first. Actually it kind of reminds me of Maggie's Bob except Bob is about 70 lbs so a bit bigger the Harpo was. I love to see people's Sulcatas on this site, but I have to admire them for raising them (when they're raised properly I mean). I love to see Bob and Dudley they are characters. Thanks for posting the story hopefully people read it and learn something from it.

bettinge · (This post was last modified: 10-07-2009 04:38 AM by bettinge.)

I think another lure of Sulcata breeding is the large clutch size! I wonder how many people would buy Sully's if the law restricted the sale of them to only ones that are over 20 pounds.

When I decided to get a tortoise, I did lots of research on the adult size and enclosure requirements of different species. I finally chose Greeks and Hermanns because they fit what I could offer. If I lived in a warmer climate and had lots of property, I would have many Sulcatas......I thinlk they are awsome!

TylerStewart · (This post was last modified: 10-07-2009 01:03 PM by TylerStewart.)

(10-07-2009 04:34 AM)bettinge Wrote: I wonder how many people would buy Sully's if the law restricted the sale of them to only ones that are over 20 pounds.

Like almost everything the government does, that law wouldn't work. You're already not supposed to sell them under 4", yet it happens openly everywhere. Only a small handful of states do any enforcement of it, and if a 20 pound law was made, it would still be enforced by the same people enforcing the 4" law.

I again agree with EJ on this, and I remain confused about where all the abused, mistreated, neglected etc sulcatas are. I'm in Las Vegas, and I know of none in any rescues here. They still routinely sell at local pet stores (here) for hundreds of dollars for big males, and I recently traded a spare 75lb male and a small 4" juvie for a root canal to a dentist that wanted a big tortoise (I owed him $780 after my insurance paid half). I am constantly told at shows by customers how happy they are with their 100lb lawnmowers, and how much joy they bring into their lives. I stand by my past statement that if rescues are complaining about sulcatas piling up, they are simply not trying to get rid of them. Plenty of people want them.

What's not to love?
[Image: Scarlett400x266.jpg]

SulcataDud3 · 10-07-2009, 03:18 PM

I love Sulcata's, the end.

**Yvonne G** · 10-07-2009, 03:42 PM

(10-07-2009 12:59 PM)TylerStewart Wrote: I stand by my past statement that if rescues are complaining about sulcatas piling up, they are simply not trying to get rid of them. Plenty of people want them.

I'm sure its geographical. The area I live in, Central California, doesn't have that many tortoise-lovers, and once you've sold each of them a baby leopard, or adopted out all your sulcatas, there just aren't that many more folks here that want or can fit another tortoise into their lives. Seems to me that the American Tortoise Rescue had to stop taking in sulcatas because they had too many.

I practically had to give my baby leopards away at 2 for $50. And there are only 3 folks on my Sulcata list. Thankfully this was a pretty slow year for adoptions. I only took in one baby sulcata and didn't get in any larger ones. Whew!

Yvonne

-EJ · 10-07-2009, 03:58 PM

I'd of given you $100 for the two leopards.

It also depends on the standard you have to adopt out.

(10-07-2009 03:42 PM)emysemys Wrote:
(10-07-2009 12:59 PM)TylerStewart Wrote: I stand by my past statement that if rescues are complaining about sulcatas piling up, they are simply not trying to get rid of them. Plenty of people want them.

I'm sure its geographical. The area I live in, Central California, doesn't have that many tortoise-lovers, and once you've sold each of them a baby leopard, or adopted out all your sulcatas, there just aren't that many more folks here that want or can fit another tortoise into their lives. Seems to me that the American Tortoise Rescue had to stop taking in sulcatas because they had too many.

I practically had to give my baby leopards away at 2 for $50. And there are only 3 folks on my Sulcata list. Thankfully this was a pretty slow year for adoptions. I only took in one baby sulcata and didn't get in any larger ones. Whew!

Yvonne

**Yvonne G** · 10-07-2009, 05:44 PM

(10-07-2009 03:58 PM)-EJ Wrote: I'd of given you $100 for the two leopards.
It also depends on the standard you have to adopt out.

Well, I'm pretty strict as far as safety for the tortoise goes, however if the yard isn't safe, I tell the people what they have to do to make it safe...fence the in-the-ground-pool or fence out the tortoise, fix the hole in the fence, provide a hiding place or a shelter...none of these are too much for the person to have to take care of. I'm only looking out for the tortoise's safety, not looking for a clean and perfect yard. In all the years I've been doing this, I've only failed two yards, and one of those was a veritable junk yard with no walking space between the wrecked cars and the rusted out kitchen appliances. The other one had a chain link fence all around and they didn't want to take precautions to keep the tortoise from pushing under.

I had about 30 leopards hatch from 4 females. I had no trouble selling the first 20 at $100 apiece, but couldn't find any takers after that. So I went online and lowered to $75 because of the shipping. Sold a few more. Finally had to go down to $50 apiece and sold a couple more. The last 4 went for 2 for $50! Even so, I made a bit of a profit overall to help defray some of the rescue's vet bills! Then I adopted out (free) all the males so no more baby worries!

Yvonne

Meg90 · 10-07-2009, 07:35 PM

I think breeding sulcata is a bad idea. Its like breeding cats....like, if I got two kittens, let them grow up, and then have more kittens because I wanted to experience the miracle of life. Its a bad idea. Don't see unwanted torts in your area? Go on craigslist and type in tortoise. Misspell it if you like. Sometimes that helps.

People treat them like garbage because they don't "emote" the way dogs and cats do. The tort is "fine" or "happy" being fed frozen veggies for 6 mos and kept without UVB and then dumped when the owners get bored.

Why add to the problem just for kicks?

-EJ · 10-07-2009, 07:42 PM

I'm sorry... but the people who I know who have Sulcatas... adore them.

I'm talking about people who have no interest in tortoises in general.

Bottom line... your wrong.

Again... think of how many are sold and how many show up as 'adoptions'.

(10-07-2009 07:35 PM)Meg90 Wrote: I think breeding sulcata is a bad idea. Its like breeding cats....like, if I got two kittens, let them grow up, and then have more kittens because I wanted to experience the miracle of life. Its a bad idea. Don't see unwanted torts in your area? Go on craigslist and type in tortoise. Misspell it if you like. Sometimes that helps.

People treat them like garbage because they don't "emote" the way dogs and cats do. The tort is "fine" or "happy" being fed frozen veggies for 6 mos and kept without UVB and then dumped when the owners get bored.

Why add to the problem just for kicks?

Meg90 · 10-07-2009, 07:45 PM

And again, think of how many just simply, die and are never offered the chance to have a real home?

I am not against the Sulcata Species. I love torts. I think sullys are beautiful, and someday, when I live in a nice warm climate, with a nice piece of land, I will have one. Or more.

But I do not think they should be so readily available to the general public. Backyard breeders just make it worse. The easier they are to obtain, the more of them will be tossed aside.

TylerStewart · (This post was last modified: 10-08-2009 07:09 AM by TylerStewart.)

(10-07-2009 07:35 PM)Meg90 Wrote: I think breeding sulcata is a bad idea. Its like breeding cats....like, if I got two kittens, let them grow up, and then have more kittens because I wanted to experience the miracle of life. Its a bad idea. Don't see unwanted torts in your area? Go on craigslist and type in tortoise. Misspell it if you like. Sometimes that helps.

People treat them like garbage because they don't "emote" the way dogs and cats do. The tort is "fine" or "happy" being fed frozen veggies for 6 mos and kept without UVB and then dumped when the owners get bored.

think of how many just simply, die and are never offered the chance to have a real home

One minor (major) difference is that cats reproduce in a year, so the cat population gets out of control quickly. They are higher maintenance than a tortoise, and more costly (per month/year etc) to own than a tortoise. This contributes to cats being unwanted. Dogs are the same way. To me, my big sulcatas are some of the easier ones because they're happy and healthy eating grass.

I would guess that a similar percentage of sulcatas die as babies as any other tortoise sold. So if 10% of sulcatas die in the first year, and 10% of redfoot tortoises die in the first year, should we also stop trying to produce redfoot tortoises?

For what it's worth, I confirmed this morning on Craigslist that there are no unwanted tortoises in the Las Vegas area.