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MONGO · (This post was last modified: 08-03-2009 11:13 PM by MONGO.)

Yes.....These are the Giant Leopards. I have some babies from a friend that I am helping sell. I have 5 beautiful 4-5" babies that are about 1-1/2 years old. These guys are awesome. As a bonus, they are high blondes.

Price is $250.00 each.

Parents are huge. I live in San Jose, California. Sorry , no shipping. I dont like to stress them or me out.

You can email me at t34racing@yahoo.com.

For some reason, my pics will not upload. I can email pics if needed, but please only if your interested.
Thanks

MONGO · 08-04-2009, 07:51 AM

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(08-03-2009 11:11 PM)MONGO Wrote: Yes.....These are the Giant Leopards. I have some babies from a friend that I am helping sell. I have 5 beautiful 4-5" babies that are about 1-1/2 years old. These guys are awesome. As a bonus, they are high blondes.

Price is $250.00 each.

Parents are huge. I live in San Jose, California. Sorry , no shipping. I dont like to stress them or me out.

You can email me at t34racing@yahoo.com.
For some reason, my pics will not upload. I can email pics if needed, but please only if your interested.
Thanks

**egyptiandan** · 08-05-2009, 03:27 AM

They are very nice Smile

, but they aren't Stigmochelys pardalis pardalis. They are S.p. babcocki.

Danny

MONGO · 08-05-2009, 07:40 AM

(08-05-2009 03:27 AM)egyptiandan Wrote: They are very nice , but they aren't Stigmochelys pardalis pardalis. They are S.p. babcocki.

Danny

Dan,

I asked the owners of them and they said their pair is Pardalis Pardalis. Now that you said babcocki, I noticed the one spot on the shell too. Their pair which I have seen is 52 and 55lbs. They are to big for Babcocki. Mine are 1/4 the size and near their age.

**egyptiandan** · 08-05-2009, 09:03 AM

They aren't to big at all for S.p.babcocki at that size. You can't go by size to tell the 2 subspecies apart. The hatchlings definately aren't S.p.pardalis, so the parents can't be either. It is always possible that there is S.p.pardalis mixed in with the parents, but unlikely as I'm not seeing even a little sign of double spotting on the vertebral scutes.
They just happen to be large S.p.babcocki. The weight record for S.p.babcocki is 38kg (83.6lbs).

Danny

MONGO · 08-05-2009, 09:31 AM

Hi Dan,

I appreciate the feedback. I am caught in the middle of this trying to help out a friend.

I asked her and she said that when they hatched, they had two spots and as they have grown older, the spots have come together. They are not the 1-1/2 years I thought, they are 2-1/2" years old.

I am not that familiar with the species, do they retain two spots as they mature or do they come together. I was trying to do research on line and some people said that the spots do come together as others say they just disappear. I looked at my Bobcocki and Pardalis species, even though they are young, they dont have any spotting.

**egyptiandan** · 08-05-2009, 10:35 AM

No the spots never come together. They stay the same through out life. The only thing they do is get dull and hard to see as the tortoise gets older.
If your tortoises don't have spots or didn't have spots in the natal (hatchling) part of the vertebral scutes, than they are all S.p.babcocki.
There are sadly to many mis-informed people out there who got caught paying more money for S.p.pardalis and got either S.p.babcocki or crosses.
It's only been fairly recently that breeders have figured out that S.p.pardalis eggs need a cool diapause to start to develop. In the past people had S.p.pardalis and weren't getting the eggs to hatch, so they sadly started crossing them with S.p.babcocki. The eggs hatched (as S.p.babcocki eggs don't need to diapause) and they were selling them for more money as S.p.pardalis.
Sorry your in the middle of this Sad

Just needed to inform people that they wouldn't be getting what they thought they might be getting.
Not your fault. Smile

Danny

MONGO · 08-05-2009, 01:24 PM

Thanks Dan.

I have some 2-1/2" year old Leopards for $250.

They are almost 5" in length.

Experts say Bobcocki Subspecies.
Owner says Pardalis Subspecies.

If you want a great Pet, subspecies doesnt matter. These guys are just cute.

Again, Thanks Dan. I learn something every day.

TylerStewart · (This post was last modified: 08-05-2009 03:26 PM by TylerStewart.)

Agreed, spots never come together. Are you going to have these at the San Jose show this weekend?

Greg T · 08-05-2009, 05:58 PM

These guys look really good. You should have no trouble fidning them a new home.

MONGO · 08-13-2009, 06:36 AM

(08-05-2009 05:58 PM)Greg T Wrote: These guys look really good. You should have no trouble fidning them a new home.

Sorry for getting back to the post late. I did have them at the show for display only. The parents were there as well. The owners did bring some pics of the babies which were double and single dots. So I am thinking maybe they are a cross between both species. The owner now has all the tortoises back so I can refer you to them if interested.