oct update my radiata

enchilada · Oct 23, 2014

almost 3 month since i got my little radiata.
heres little update.
he grown from 65 grams to 77 grams. is this a normal growth rate?

keepergale · Oct 23, 2014

Not to worry you but that seems a little slow. I checked a couple similar weight class Radiata from my charts and got this for you.
11-6 (51g) 11-20 (61g) 12-1 (68g)
12-11 (78g) 12-20 (80g) 1-5 (98g)
1-14 (103g) 1-27 (113g) 2-6 (115g)

8-22 (40g) 9-5 (41g) 9-16 (44g)
9-25 (45g) 10-4 (47g) 10-12 (50g)
10-18 (50g) 10-21 (51g)

6-19 (50g) 6-23 (52g) 6-29 (53g)
7-7 (54g) 7-17 (56g) 7-30 (60g)
8-7 (65g) 8-14 (69g) 8-22 (70g)
9-5 (65g) 9-18 (82g)
The last two are the same age. The middle one fell behind when they lived together. It now seems to taking off. Whether or not it will catch its sibling remains to be seen. I am raising them warm and humid. No
sign of pyramiding.

ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1414121437.532651.jpg

stojanovski92113 · Oct 23, 2014

enchilada said:
almost 3 month since i got my little radiata.
heres little update.
he grown from 65 grams to 77 grams. is this a normal growth rate?

Ok....a sharp shell for sure, but what a cute face with such big eyes

so darn cute!

Tom · Oct 23, 2014

I've not raised this species yet, but I'm told they all grow at different rates, like most species. 12 grams in three months seems on the low side to me too, but nothing to be alarmed about.

What does alarm me is that water bowl. You know those are flip/drowning hazards, right? I would switch that for something safer.

I love their black hats...

enchilada · Oct 23, 2014

Tom said:
I've not raised this species yet, but I'm told they all grow at different rates, like most species. 12 grams in three months seems on the low side to me too, but nothing to be alarmed about.

What does alarm me is that water bowl. You know those are flip/drowning hazards, right? I would switch that for something safer.

I love their black hats...

i use that bigger water bowl to hold my flower pot. i have another shallow bowl for him.

enchilada · Oct 23, 2014

this is his day time bathing enclosure. i bring him inside after sunset. damn raccoons just ate my box turtle couple weeks ago.

Tom · Oct 24, 2014

How long does he stay in that outdoor enclosure? I ask because in my experience they grow very slowly if kept outdoors more than an hour or two a day here. I've raised groups of 6 clutch mates with one group primarily indoors receiving daily one hour sunning sessions, and the other group living outside in a large well planted enclosure for 10-12 hours a day. All the babies were from the same clutch and hatched at the same time. They were randomly selected to be in one group or the other as soon as their umbilicals were absorbed and they were ready to be in a "regular" enclosure. Both groups were active. Both groups ate the same amounts of the same foods, but in fact the outdoor ones could have been eating more since they could and did graze all day in addition to what I "fed" them. Both groups got soaked daily. The indoor ones grew at a much faster rate and much smoother. The outdoor ones had slight pyramiding, as yours does too. By four months old the indoor group was 120-150 grams and the outdoor group was about 55-75 grams. By six months the indoor ones were 320-380 grams and the outdoor ones were around 95-155 grams.

Might this be what is going on? If yes, it does not seem to harm them in anyway. They just grow slower in the drier, less stable, outdoor conditions here. All of my outdoor group was very healthy. Just as healthy as the indoor group, only smaller with the same amount of the same food.

enchilada · Oct 24, 2014

Tom said:
How long does he stay in that outdoor enclosure? I ask because in my experience they grow very slowly if kept outdoors more than an hour or two a day here. I've raised groups of 6 clutch mates with one group primarily indoors receiving daily one hour sunning sessions, and the other group living outside in a large well planted enclosure for 10-12 hours a day. All the babies were from the same clutch and hatched at the same time. They were randomly selected to be in one group or the other as soon as their umbilicals were absorbed and they were ready to be in a "regular" enclosure. Both groups were active. Both groups ate the same amounts of the same foods, but in fact the outdoor ones could have been eating more since they could and did graze all day in addition to what I "fed" them. Both groups got soaked daily. The indoor ones grew at a much faster rate and much smoother. The outdoor ones had slight pyramiding, as yours does too. By four months old the indoor group was 120-150 grams and the outdoor group was about 55-75 grams. By six months the indoor ones were 320-380 grams and the outdoor ones were around 95-155 grams.

Might this be what is going on? If yes, it does not seem to harm them in anyway. They just grow slower in the drier, less stable, outdoor conditions here. All of my outdoor group was very healthy. Just as healthy as the indoor group, only smaller with the same amount of the same food.

he stays couple hours to 10 hours outside, depends on how busy my work is.
i also turn off heat lamp when i go to sleep. i keep my room temp constantly 72~79F since i also have a reef tank full of corals (if my water temp falls below or exceed that range, corals die).

Tom · Oct 25, 2014

Well then that could explain the slower growth. Possibly in addition to one or more other "normal" factors that come into play.

If you are okay with it, then I would say to do nothing any different.

If you think you might want him to grow a little quicker then only leave him outside for an hour or so and start offering some Mazuri a few times a week. With winter coming soon, he will be spending more time indoors anyhow, so this theory might get tested one way or another in the next few months. If your indoor enclosure is fairly dry with an open top, all of this might not make much difference. If your indoor enclosure is a more stable closed chamber, then I think you will see a fairly big difference.

Also, are you soaking daily? I remember reading Bill Zovickians radiata care sheet and he says he soaks his babies every single day for the first four years.

enchilada · Oct 25, 2014

Tom said:
Well then that could explain the slower growth. Possibly in addition to one or more other "normal" factors that come into play.

If you are okay with it, then I would say to do nothing any different.

If you think you might want him to grow a little quicker then only leave him outside for an hour or so and start offering some Mazuri a few times a week. With winter coming soon, he will be spending more time indoors anyhow, so this theory might get tested one way or another in the next few months. If your indoor enclosure is fairly dry with an open top, all of this might not make much difference. If your indoor enclosure is a more stable closed chamber, then I think you will see a fairly big difference.

Also, are you soaking daily? I remember reading Bill Zovickians radiata care sheet and he says he soaks his babies every single day for the first four years.

mine is open top. humidity around 50%~70%. he soaks himself in a shallow zoomed bowl whenever he wants.

coastal · Oct 25, 2014

Rads are very different female to female bloodline to bloodline in terms of offspring growth. So normal for one won't be the same for the other. If eating and growing then nothing to worry about. In CA it's dry, so you should allow outdoors - ground (dirt) access with live landscape grasses of your choice for shade and shelter. This should receive regular water via sprinkler or hand. This will make for smooth growth in your climate, access to water I find works ideal with these they love to drink. I would not keep them on concrete, and the plants in the pots are only offering shade not really humidity the way you have it. Indoors it's best to have a system you can close up, the expense is worth it. if nothing else just get him/her off the concrete.

Tom · Oct 25, 2014

enchilada said:
mine is open top. humidity around 50%~70%. he soaks himself in a shallow zoomed bowl whenever he wants.

I can see what is going on there. Again, if you are happy with what you've got, don't change a thing. If you want tips on what I would do differently or more explanation about what is going on based on my observations of tortoises here in our climate, I'm happy to spend the time. Just ask.

enchilada · Oct 26, 2014

Tom said:
I can see what is going on there. Again, if you are happy with what you've got, don't change a thing. If you want tips on what I would do differently or more explanation about what is going on based on my observations of tortoises here in our climate, I'm happy to spend the time. Just ask.

thank you so much!
i read your "stop pyramiding " post. So if i want smooth shell and fast growth, i need a closed chamber, 80%+ humidity and heating
i do have a closed chamber as shown on this picture. is this enough?

Tom · Oct 26, 2014

That enclosure looks great. You will have to figure out how to tweak things to get just the right parameters.

I don't aim for fast growth. I aim for healthy growth. The speed has never mattered to me. I find that when young tortoises spend most of their time inside a closed chamber like the one you have there, the stable conditions and temperatures seem to make them thrive and do much better. I like to give them daily sunning sessions for about an hour and then a soak for 20-30 minutes on the way in.

Please note: I have not raised this species before, but I've used the above techniques with a bunch of other species and it always works the same. I've seen many other people raise radiata this way and it works perfectly for them too.

bigred · Oct 26, 2014

I let my radiated get as much outside time as possible, I try to give them a humid outside environment. I think its important to let them roam in a large outdoor enclosure as much as possible for many reasons such as excercise, real sun all day, temperature fluxuation. I let them get cold and hot,,,,,,,,,,,,,not to cold. I do soak my little guys everyday and the bigger guys once a week or so

oct update my radiata

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