Asian Greens

keepergale

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What do folks here know about Ong Choy/Chinese Water Spinach and
Bitter Melon/ Momordica charantia?
The tortoises seem to love both. Any negative aspects people are aware of?


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Jabuticaba

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I've never considered them, at all, to be honest. We're having huge issues with things coming from certain Asian locations. A lot of lead contamination and pesticide issues being reported. Stuff gets recalled, all the time. As a general rule, I only consume veggies grown within Canada, or whatever I can grow.


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keepergale

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I am pretty sure they are locally grown here in California. I have only found them at the farmers markets.
I was wondering about Oxalic Acid or similar negatives.


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Jabuticaba

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Yvonne G

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@Will would be a good one to ask this question. He knows how to do a Google search for nutrition content of foods.
 

Abdulla6169

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Hi! I just browsed the net and found this:
"Bitter gourd may contain alkaloid substances like quinine and morodicine, resins and saponic glycosides, which may be intolerable by some people. The bitterness and toxicity may be reduced somewhat by parboiling or soaking in salt water for up to 10 minutes. Toxicity symptoms may include excessive salivation, facial redness, dimness of vision, stomach pain, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, muscular weakness."- http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/bitter-gourd.html
"A Glycoside is a molecule in which a sugar is bonded to another molecular group. The chemical compounds are not always toxic in nature, but certain glycosides can cause complications in animals that ingest them. The bonds can be broken by digestive enzymes (or protective plant enzymes), leaving the non-sugar group (aglycone) in the bloodstream. Symptoms of glycoside toxicity include diarrhea, vomiting, and heart failure."
"A Glycoside is a molecule in which a sugar is bonded to another molecular group. The chemical compounds are not always toxic in nature, but certain glycosides can cause complications in animals that ingest them. The bonds can be broken by digestive enzymes (or protective plant enzymes), leaving the non-sugar group (aglycone) in the bloodstream. Symptoms of glycoside toxicity include diarrhea, vomiting, and heart failure."-http://www.moonvalleyreptiles.com/uromastyx/uromastyx-diet/oxalates-goitrogens-toxins
So please feed in moderation :)
 

zenoandthetortoise

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My understanding is that the component of concern are the arils that cover the seeds. I believe they are removed before human consumption so could be avoided. A bigger issue might be the calcium/phosphorus ratio which is 1/4.
As to the various Asian greens, mustards and cabbages; oxalates vary by species and cultivar but these greens add many other nutrients and can be a useful part of the rotation.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Go to this link to see all these vining squash, cucumber, gourd like plants are closley related http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucurbita and http://www.feedipedia.org/node/44

Then see here the food value of the ariel green part http://www.feedipedia.org/node/14542

So this is whole leaf, vine, tendril flower etc. as best as I can ascertain. Calcium to phosphorus is crazy high.

The few actual wild cucumber plants I saw in South Africa were growing up into a large thicket of spiny shrubs, just to stay away from all the plant eating animals there.

Any other source on the leaves, flowers and vine would be great to see.
 

zenoandthetortoise

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Go to this link to see all these vining squash, cucumber, gourd like plants are closley related http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucurbita and http://www.feedipedia.org/node/44

Then see here the food value of the ariel green part http://www.feedipedia.org/node/14542

So this is whole leaf, vine, tendril flower etc. as best as I can ascertain. Calcium to phosphorus is crazy high.

The few actual wild cucumber plants I saw in South Africa were growing up into a large thicket of spiny shrubs, just to stay away from all the plant eating animals there.

Any other source on the leaves, flowers and vine would be great to see.


I think we are talking about different things. Bitter melon is not in the Cucurbita genus, which is exclusively New World.

Also, I'm not familiar with Feedipedia, but I believe the page you are referencing regarding pumpkins is addressing 'by product' of harvest, which is typically vegetative and not fruit.
Please advise if I'm reading incorrectly.
 

Abdulla6169

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I think we are talking about different things. Bitter melon is not in the Cucurbita genus, which is exclusively New World.

Also, I'm not familiar with Feedipedia, but I believe the page you are referencing regarding pumpkins is addressing 'by product' of harvest, which is typically vegetative and not fruit.
Please advise if I'm reading incorrectly.
I am confused too. :confused:!
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Well darn it all, I literally say the leaves and vines, so yeah the non fruit part. And Yes as a matter of fact it is in the Cururbita FAMILY http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momordica_charantia

I don't read where the OP was talking about the 'fruit' or the 'greens', but my instainct and that I have gone to farmers markets with KeeperGale lead me to think we are talking about the greens. Either way the greens are realtive, the tortoises go crazy for these greens, all the squash, cucumber, and gourd greens, all in the Cucurbitaceae Family, which includes the genus Momordica.

Maybe you can have a positive content contribution about the other plant brought up!
 

zenoandthetortoise

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Well darn it all, I literally say the leaves and vines, so yeah the non fruit part. And Yes as a matter of fact it is in the Cururbita FAMILY http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momordica_charantia

I don't read where the OP was talking about the 'fruit' or the 'greens', but my instainct and that I have gone to farmers markets with KeeperGale lead me to think we are talking about the greens. Either way the greens are realtive, the tortoises go crazy for these greens, all the squash, cucumber, and gourd greens, all in the Cucurbitaceae Family, which includes the genus Momordica.

Maybe you can have a positive content contribution about the other plant brought up!

Actually I already did contribute, at least somewhat positively, regarding the other plants. As to the melons, you're using Cucurbita (genus) as synonymous with Curcubitacea (family). That is positively incorrect. Pick a taxon and stick with it. By that rubric, nightshade can be evaluated by posting a Wikipedia link to tomato nutrients.
And yes, I'm positive about my contribution.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Actually I already did contribute, at least somewhat positively, regarding the other plants. As to the melons, you're using Cucurbita (genus) as synonymous with Curcubitacea (family). That is positively incorrect. Pick a taxon and stick with it. By that rubric, nightshade can be evaluated by posting a Wikipedia link to tomato nutrients.
And yes, I'm positive about my contribution.
Not my taxonomy, but rather that of Feedipedia, Yeah! They, feedipedia, suggest that the vining cucmber, melon, squash like things are similar in nutrient value and charatize them as
"Pumpkin, squash, gourd and other Cucurbita species"
whatever that may mean to a taxonmist such as yourself.

I quoted my source. Your taxonomy argument is with them.
 

zenoandthetortoise

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Not my taxonomy, but rather that of Feedipedia, Yeah! They, feedipedia, suggest that the vining cucmber, melon, squash like things are similar in nutrient value and charatize them as
"Pumpkin, squash, gourd and other Cucurbita species"
whatever that may mean to a taxonmist such as yourself.

I quoted my source. Your taxonomy argument is with them.

No, it's not. Which is a relief as I would hate to question an authority with 'pedia' in its name. Yeah!!!
Also, a taxonomist such as myself has no issue with the taxonomy as referenced. However a taxonomist such as myself understands that 'Cucurbita species' refers to species within the genus Cucurbita and not anything within the family. Here I'm paraphrasing Linnaeus if you need a source.
Thanks for the good talk. It's been fun
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Bitter mellon pods or the fruit may not be so great in terms of calcium/phosphorus see http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/2870?qlookup=11025&format=Full&max=25&man=&lfacet=&new=1

But pumpkin itself is not so much better see http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/3176?fg=&man=&lfacet=&format=&count=&max=25&offset=&sort=&qlookup=Pumpkin, raw

This USDA diet item nutrition database (not a -pedia) does list pumpkin leaves and they are a shown in this database to be a poor source of calcium to phosphorus as well. Pumpkin leaves content can be seen here http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/3174?fg=&man=&lfacet=&format=&count=&max=25&offset=&sort=&qlookup=Pumpkin, raw

However the Feedipedia database shows squash 'crop by-product' under the general description of (Cucurbita sp, squash, mellon, goard) as being a great calcium source, see http://www.feedipedia.org/node/14542

Without reading the source data or seeing how the analysis was done, it's hard to compare these content charts. However I can believe the USDA data is done somewhat uniformly and consistently, where as the feedipedia is strickly a compilation of primary and perhaps some secondary sources. Yet they also call their analysis as being for the 'crop by product' which I interpret to mean leaves and branches/vines. I'll see if I can get the source data from the feedipedia account.

@keepergale I've not found out anything about what that other red stemmed leaf is, nor the ong something.
 

DeanS

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I am pretty sure they are locally grown here in California. I have only found them at the farmers markets.
I was wondering about Oxalic Acid or similar negatives.


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I don't know anyone who uses that stuff...but speaking of Farmer's Markets...I found a couple up here last summer that grow endive, escarole and radicchio. If anyone your way sells that stuff...that's the cream of the crop. Arugula and watercress too! I just realized who you are...how you doing Gale?
 

keepergale

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Small world huh? I am good. I had wondered if you were the Dean I used to know!
 

ZEROPILOT

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The whole Asian market thing has me puzzled.
I was shown three different types of leaves when I asked for broccoli rabbi.
I got the feeling that they were just screwing with me...The guy that buys live Talapia to keep as pets.
 

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