Abnormal scutes...

I have hatched 12 hermanns in past few months (thanks to great advice received from this forum!- thanks!)...
Of interest, 4 of them have abnormal scutes.
These first two, were incubated at 75% humidity and 31.5'C:
1. Abnormal posterior central scute:

2. Extra costal scutes on both sides:


So I turned the temps back to 30'C:
3. Missing central scute and abnormal shaped costal scute:

4. Missing/fused central scute:


They are all from different mothers. (Only God knows fathers) none of the parents have abnormal scutes.

I think they are super cute, and they are doing great. Healthy as all the other hatchlings!

I was eager to share these pics and was wondering...
Are there any long term health concerns?
Any ideas why this would be occurring?

I look forward to any comments....
Thanks!

I can't answer your questions. However, they are really cute and there are lots of members that go crazy for the different scute patterns, you may have too fight them off

Hello: I have no answer for your question but you are absolutely correct, They are so cute because they are so different.

I'm also admire you for your success in breeding them.

I recently started a thread wondering about if lower temps can cause missing or fused scutes because higher temps can cause extras... interesting! They are super cute!

wellington said:

I can't answer your questions. However, they are really cute and there are lots of members that go crazy for the different scute patterns, you may have too fight them off

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Yes and I am one of them! I have already talked to a couple of folks about my plan (or desire) to start a study on split scutes this year. Basically to get splitties caused by different believed ideas (too high, too low, genes, ect) and raise them keeping track on how they do opposed to their "normal" siblings and other information to try to better understand them.

Jacqui, what will this study include? I have my first split scute leopard baby. "Her" incubation temps were high but I have seen no difference yet in her behavior or eating habits when compared to the regular ones.

in my experience hermanni with extra scutes grow up female no health issues. same with gpb. alittle to high temps in the incubator is the cause. Egyptians on the other hand at least mine were male.

I had a few more hermanns hatch... Including a very small egg... It yielded this 7gram baby with a really weird shell. Rechecked my incubator temps and they remain in 30-31'C range. Fascinating. Also from a new mother compared to previous.

I believe people call that type of abnormality zipper scutes, because of their appearance. That's not the scientific term, of course, just what I've heard from other forum members. Very unique! And quite cute as well

RGB said:

I had a few more hermanns hatch... Including a very small egg... It yielded this 7gram baby with a really weird shell. Rechecked my incubator temps and they remain in 30-31'C range. Fascinating. Also from a new mother compared to previous.

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So cute! And so unique!! S/he is no bigger than my polymer tortoise pendants!

Oh, and congrats on your hatchlings!

May[TURTLE]

They're all so cute, but I think my favoirite is the last one the 'zipper' scutes
There's another thread asking the same question, so far they've concluded its purely cosmetic.

4 more hermanns hatched, two have a fused scute just like a previous baby I posted... And it is from the same mother as the previous, I'll post a pic of the two new ones next to the older sibling... Very strange indeed.

Incubated the exact same way? Or perhaps something she is passing down to her young?

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Are the males different that fathered all of these?

Yes, incubated at 30-31'C
70-75% humidity.
I have not found much info about abnormal scutes regarding genetics. But this certainly makes me wonder!

RGB, increase the humidity only and see what happens. You will have your answer.
Also every incubator I have used/owned or still using fluctuates in temperature more then a few degrees depending if we open the door, outside temps, indoor temps, loss of moisture, increase of moisture depending on the water temp, ect. Incubate at the temps you are doing, but during the last half of incubation turn the temps down a degree or two. We have seem an increase of perfect scuted tortoises this way. Playing around with the variables yourself, you will find what works best for your situation. Best of luck and keep us posted on your next clutches.

Hi
Just thought Id show the latest funny scute pattern... Most of these I am isolating to a certain female although she may be associated with them because she lays the majority of the eggs.... I can't seem to improve upon my humidity level no matter what I do. It fluctuates from 70-80%. Temps remain around 30C

I think its time to buy a new, more accurate thermometer.

RGB said:

Hi
Just thought Id show the latest funny scute pattern... Most of these I am isolating to a certain female although she may be associated with them because she lays the majority of the eggs.... I can't seem to improve upon my humidity level no matter what I do. It fluctuates from 70-80%. Temps remain around 30C

View attachment 76153

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So can we say they will be mostly females??

Yvonne, I work in a lab, and I had the thermometer calibrated.
I have a thermometer that will record max and min temps, maybe I should put that in... But I frequently check temp and the thermometer is always steady at 30'C.

there is more to it than just temps ......I as well as others can attest to that . ....and on a heavier note I could share some research about it, how it happens and why it happens (along with personal in house experiments for the last 10 years) but it tends to start arguments in here and I'm done with those .....you can always email me if you would like to discuss them .
JD~