Geoclemys Hamiltonii

scuba113 · Jul 20, 2017

zovick said:
To the statement above, I might add this disclaimer: "unless both the buyer and seller have CBW Permits for the species involved in such a sale".

I understand that unless you both are in the same state I dont need a permit to get them. I dont want to go through the process to get the permit just to have them sent here. This is the only turtles im looking for at the moment.

Tom: I emailed them biut never got anything back. Im looking for a number now see what I can find

Tom · Jul 20, 2017

KevinGG said:
It's especially hard with such a large, "tropical" species. If they didn't need to come in during winter, I'd have ten of them tomorrow. They are so beautiful and so personable. I wouldn't be surprised if they could handle a socal winter, but in the same way that a sulcata could handle a winter without a nightbox.

I'm admittedly ignorant on the subject, but would it work to heat the water? Or is the air still too cold to risk them coming out of the water on a cold winer night?

KevinGG · Jul 20, 2017

Tom said:
I'm admittedly ignorant on the subject, but would it work to heat the water? Or is the air still too cold to risk them coming out of the water on a cold winer night?

Mostly an issue of cost. Heating hundreds of gallons of water into the 70s on a 40 degree night takes a lot of heat. I have been thinking about super insulating an above ground pond with a plexiglass lid. Basically a huge coldframe pond.

Don't think air temp is a problem w them. They're so tough. Kept my Juvi outdoors in a heated trough during the winter. Behler brings them in though.

KevinGG · Jul 20, 2017

Something like this, but on a much larger scale.

ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1500588970.719268.jpg

Behler used "cold frames" for all of the arid species. Basically 2 x 4s with plexi screwed to them. They actually worked really well and were reliable enough to keep all of the Pyxis, Kleinmanni, Homopus, young Chersina, and juvi Yniphora. Heres a pic:

Not that big of course. Im thinking that a couple water heaters, a couple MVBs and the sun could keep something like that warm throughout winter without burning through cash. Would be cool to be able to keep tropical lilies in the water and a variety of things in the land portion.

Any experience w something like this?

KevinGG · Jul 20, 2017

scuba113 said:
I understand that unless you both are in the same state I dont need a permit to get them. I dont want to go through the process to get the permit just to have them sent here. This is the only turtles im looking for at the moment.

Tom: I emailed them biut never got anything back. Im looking for a number now see what I can find

Try this email: [email protected]

It's not a Behler email, but it is who I was in contact w a couple years ago about adopting some Hamiltonii from the center.

Markw84 · Jul 20, 2017

KevinGG said:
Mostly an issue of cost. Heating hundreds of gallons of water into the 70s on a 40 degree night takes a lot of heat. I have been thinking about super insulating an above ground pond with a plexiglass lid. Basically a huge coldframe pond.

Don't think air temp is a problem w them. They're so tough. Kept my Juvi outdoors in a heated trough during the winter. Behler brings them in though.

I do believe you would run into possible problems with air temps substantially lower than water temps. It is very irritating on their respiratory systems and I have seen that lead to RI. What you are showing would be the only way to go IMO. You need to heat the air to match the water temp at least. Plus, as you mention - to heat an unprotected pond would be astronomical.

As an aside, I did not see Behler had any surplus hamiltonii last time I was there last fall.

KevinGG · Jul 20, 2017

Markw84 said:
I do believe you would run into possible problems with air temps substantially lower than water temps. It is very irritating on their respiratory systems and I have seen that lead to RI. What you are showing would be the only way to go IMO. You need to heat the air to match the water temp at least. Plus, as you mention - to heat an unprotected pond would be astronomical.

As an aside, I did not see Behler had any surplus hamiltonii last time I was there last fall.

Thanks Mark. With Hamiltonii, since they are so adaptable and resilient, it's probably a question of what they can handle versus what they should handle. I was erring on the side of the former and you, probably correctly, on the side of the latter. Have you ever built anything like what I described?

Think the Hamiltonii would still be in the brick pond in the Radiata yard that time of year. Possible they got rid of them though.

Markw84 · Jul 21, 2017

KevinGG said:
Thanks Mark. With Hamiltonii, since they are so adaptable and resilient, it's probably a question of what they can handle versus what they should handle. I was erring on the side of the former and you, probably correctly, on the side of the latter. Have you ever built anything like what I described?

Think the Hamiltonii would still be in the brick pond in the Radiata yard that time of year. Possible they got rid of them though.

I have not built an enclosure like this. If I had more room, I would and would love some G. hamiltonii. I think it is the only way a tropical aquatic could be kept "outdoors" yearround here. I made a decision to stay with US species primarily because of this issue.

I was actually making my comments not about the ability to withstand lower temperatures in general, but my experiences and belief that it is the condition of having air temps substantially lower than water temps that lead to potential dangers. I've experienced that with even temperate species I kept in a garage setup to grow them yearround their first few years. Heating the water was not only expensive, but that difference of air vs water temps on cold nights proved problematic and resulted in some developing RI. After that, I used room indoors for a turtle nursery and heated the whole room, instead of just heating the water. Was actually much less expensive, and healthier turtles!

KevinGG · Jul 21, 2017

Markw84 said:
I have not built an enclosure like this. If I had more room, I would and would love some G. hamiltonii. I think it is the only way a tropical aquatic could be kept "outdoors" yearround here. I made a decision to stay with US species primarily because of this issue.

I was actually making my comments not about the ability to withstand lower temperatures in general, but my experiences and belief that it is the condition of having air temps substantially lower than water temps that lead to potential dangers. I've experienced that with even temperate species I kept in a garage setup to grow them yearround their first few years. Heating the water was not only expensive, but that difference of air vs water temps on cold nights proved problematic and resulted in some developing RI. After that, I used room indoors for a turtle nursery and heated the whole room, instead of just heating the water. Was actually much less expensive, and healthier turtles!

Right. Makes total sense.

scuba113 · Jul 21, 2017

Thank you. I just contacted them.

That would be a cool set up to do for turtles the second picture of course. The first one I would do plants but that's just me.

KevinGG · Jan 31, 2018

He’s getting big now. I’ll have to start looking for some future mates.

KevinGG · Mar 8, 2018

Markw84 said:
I do believe you would run into possible problems with air temps substantially lower than water temps. It is very irritating on their respiratory systems and I have seen that lead to RI. What you are showing would be the only way to go IMO. You need to heat the air to match the water temp at least. Plus, as you mention - to heat an unprotected pond would be astronomical.

As an aside, I did not see Behler had any surplus hamiltonii last time I was there last fall.

Thought I’d share an interesting note on Hamiltonii. I was emailing with Cris Hagen and he said the TSA keeps their Hamiltonii outdoors year round with average winter temps being 50s. Even then, he said they have days in the 30s and 40s. He said, in the wild, Hamiltonii may brumate for 2-3 months and would definitely experience temps like the ones I just described and colder. He described the Himalayan mountains runoff flowing into the rivers that G. Hamiltonii inhabit. Of course, this isn’t throughout their whole range, but should be kept in mind. They can withstand much more than 70. Thought you’d be interested. Maybe also @Tom.

Geoclemys Hamiltonii

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