Poorly hermanns hatchling

Kath3kidz

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Hello. I am new to this forum. I am in UK and have been a breeder of Hermanni Boetgerri and F. Whitei tortoises for 30 years. I am looking for advice regarding my 18 month old Hermann hatchling who has become ill. Toddy has been slow to thrive since hatching, but now weighs 64g. I was away recently for 3 weeks and on my return found that while in the care of a friend he had become extremely dehydrated through having been too weak to get into his water with the other baby torts. My friend realised and had started daily soaks where he was drinking copiously. I found that he was so weak he had stopped eating altogether and was not able to drag himself very far. He was also mouth breathing every few seconds. I guessed it was a respiratory infection and got him to the vet strtaight away. She diagnosed Upper RI infection and agreed with me that Baytril could work. She prescribed 0.02ml of Baytril in a solution of diluted blackcurrant juice to make it up to a total of 0.2ml fluid. I am giving this orally once daily. I raised the temperature in his tray to help the antibiotics to work. I continued daily soaks with some Critical Care formula in the water, plus began feeding tiny pieces of pear to begin with (to increase his energy levels) then 2 days in I moved on to chopped weeds. He is now on day 10 of the Baytril dose, looks very much better, is much more active, is eating chopped up weeds with enthusiasm. He is able to walk much more easily although he still drags his shell. He has passed several grainy lots of uric acid and this is getting more creamy. He has passed normal poo. His eyes are bright and his shell and skin look much better and more rehydrated. He is alert and interested. Although he has managed to bite off some pieces of dandelion, he clearly has not got much strength for this and still needs the weeds chopped small so that he can eat them. He is obviously making very good progress. ...BUT HE IS STILL MOUTH BREATHING EVERY SO OFTEN...MAYBE EVERY 10-15 SECONDS.

What I am asking is this.... how long should I keep the Baytril dose going? The vet seemed a bit unsure about this... she sort of said" well bring him back in a week or so..." but I didn't think that she was too sure about the next step. What do other people on here suggest please?
 

wellington

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I will alert someone that might be able to answer that. In the mean time keep doing what you have been but if your not, house him by himself and double and triple check his temps are not too hot. I would up the soaks to twice a day.
@Yvonne G
 

Yvonne G

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The regimen for Baytril is one of two ways - every day for five days or every other day for 10 days. I wouldn't give it any more often than that. It's a very strong antibiotic.

But it sounds to me as if this little guy is also suffering from calcium deficiency. The weakness and dragging usually aren't associated with R.I. Make sure your UVB light is putting out UVB, and be sure to feed calcium-rich greens with a tiny bit of calcium powder added three times a week.
 

TammyJ

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I wish you the very best of luck with the little guy! Thanks for caring so much for him.
 

Kath3kidz

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Thanks for the advice, all. I separated him from the others at the very beginning of all this. He is under a UV bulb but I have just ordered a more specific UVB one to increase that. All my torts get a light pinch of Nutrobal about once a week...do you think I should increase it for him? Or maybe use an additional / better one? The others are all fine. I think the shell dragging is because he is so weak....this would account for the inability to bite through the greens on his own. He is getting stronger - he can now sometimes bite through a leaf a couple of bites, but mostly he still needs the food chopped small. But if he is still mouth breathing doesn't it mean that he still has a respiratory tract infection?? If I stop the Baytril will it just clear up on its own?? Or is there any sense in stopping the Baytril and maybe giving him a further 5 or 10 day regime in XXX number of weeks time???? Hmmmm, decisions, decisions... Thanks for helping.
 

JoesMum

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We normally recommend a tiny pinch of calcium sprinkled on food 3 times a week. They could all benefit from this.
 

JoesMum

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Tortoise nose and mouth aren't connected in the same way as ours. The nasal passages come out in the mouth area. Mouth breathing isn't necessarily a concern.

As for the baytril. How many doses has this tort had and at what intervals?
 

Kath3kidz

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He has been on 0.02ml Baytril in a solution of ribena&water made up to a total volume of 0.2ml. He has had one dose every 24 hours for the past 12 days now.
 

Cymmie

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I would also be a bit worried with baytril going any longer. It can screw up a lot of things. One of the huge things with it is it causes a lack of appetite and dehydration with prolonged use, and can eventually cause issues with digestive tracts. I have an antibiotic I recently gave my tort (who is also suffering from an RI) that is an injection. He's had four doses (every 3 days) by me personally, and one by the vet. I think he has 3 more to go, and has shown some great progress. Your little guy is showing the improvements that Teo showed in the beginning of the injections, it wasn't until around the second to last shot I just gave him that the heavy mouth breathing has stopped for him. He still has the labored breathing as far as shoulder shrugging. Does your guy still do that? I would assume if he still had the heavy shoulder shrugging with the pairing of the mouth breathing he may still be fighting the URI? Anyone have any thoughts on this as an idea?
 

Kath3kidz

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He doesn't do a lot of shoulder shrugging, just the occasional intake of breath through his mouth, now about every 20 -30 secs. He stops doing it when he is relaxed and quiet. He is much brighter and chomping his chopped weeds well. I have stopped the Baytril after 12 days. Do you think I should do a further course after a few weeks if he is still mouth breathing?
 

Cymmie

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Not in my opinion unless he starts having really labored breathing again, but maybe someone else with more tort experience should answer that part. Most of my experience with baytril is with Chameleons and other species of reptiles. But baytril is great and all as a short term antibiotic in my opinion, especially for a hatchling. It can cause so many issues for so many animals (not just reptiles). It's very strong. Just make sure your temps are good for helping baby and sick torts, and maybe some humid air (like mistings every so often under the basking lamp?) may help with breathing. But you probably are doing all this already since you breed the little guys ^^, hoping for the best for the little one.
 

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