nickel sized stone sulcata tortoise

JohnnyDigester

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So one of my rescued sulcatas has been making some straining noises the past week or so, pulling its head in, bulging its eyes, and squirming to push something out. I soaked him in warm water a couple times last saturday and he appeared to poop out a few large very dry logs of grass. So i thought great problem solved. Today I noticed he is still not moving around much like my other torts are, yes it's not as warm because of winter time but it's still 70 degrees here in so cal, so i decided to soak him in warm water again. There he starts pushing, straining and making those constipated noises again. I decided to put him away in his heated house and turn on the day bulbs and heat emmiter, check back after an hour and he's having even a harder time. I picked him up and was blown away by what i saw. His tail with his "butt hole" opening was huge and there was a huge white object stuck crowning like he was giving birth. I gloved up and tried to grab it, massage it, anything, with no luck and my wife telling me go to the vet... i proceeded to a great vet that deals with exotics. Took about 5 min for him to remove the object with a special curved tool and some lube he was able to pull it out... Now i'm left wondering what am I doing wrong!? I have 3 sulcatss and the other 2 are fine, normal urates sometimes a little hard but usually like tooth paste. It is either the water which is heavy in minerals "hard water", or it's just a combo of him not getting enough water and the quality of it. They only eat grass weeds and turnip greens twice a week or so, with a soak twice a week. I am also thinking maybe too much calcium powder on their turnip greens, maybe that is an issue as well. Anyhow your thoughts opinions and advise are all welcome, just want to figure this out so i can avoid this in the future, not cool to see any animal in pain passing a huge stone. He is all good for now and sleeping in his toasty house, I will be monitoring him closely the next few weeks. Thanks and enjoy the pics.

IMG_0021.JPG IMG_0026.JPG
 

GingerLove

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Oh dear!!!!! Could he have eaten a rock from the garden or something? Maybe you should scope around for rocks?
 

JohnnyDigester

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i'm thinking it's a urates stone. i'll cut it open tomorrow to see. don't know what would cause this.
 

cmacusa3

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i'm thinking it's a urates stone. i'll cut it open tomorrow to see. don't know what would cause this.
He looks like he's been raised dry, does he get regular soaks?

Perhaps you could post a few more pictures of him. I can't tell very well in the picture but he looks to be deformed a little.
 

JohnnyDigester

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It is a rescue, so it was in bad shape when i got him. I have had him and another one for about a little over 2 years with no issues like this before. I soak him twice a week or so. I was thinking maybe too much calcium powder on the turnip greens and a lack of him drinking enough water may have caused this, too many factors to consider. Here's a link with pics of them. http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/pyramiding-sulcata-update.146276/
 

dmmj

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wet down his food when you feed him
 

JohnnyDigester

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maybe i should stop supplementing food with calcium powder since they are outside 24/7... good article what do you think?

http://www.lbah.com/word/reptile/tortoise-bladder-stones/

Prevention

Keep your tortoise well hydrated with acess to drinking water and soaking as previously described. Feed mimimal amounts of green leafy vegetables and large amounts of grass. Do not supplememt with excess calcium or Vitamin D3 if your tortoise has access to direct sunshine as seen in our western and souther states. It is theorized that an active tortoise foraging in a large area will excrete more urates when it urinates. Keeping it in a small area can inhibit its activity and potentially lose this advantage when exercising.

A yearly exam (palpating for bladder stones), blood panel, and radiograph, goes a long way to detecting a stone early. If small enough these stones might be amenable to being flushed out or removed by a pre-femoral approach, which is obviously much easier on your tortoise than cutting the shell.
 

Cowboy_Ken

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The sun doesn't provide calcium for tortoises. The sun simply supplies the u.v. making the calcium available to tortoises. I use limestone dust broadcast on about half of my tortoises grazing yard. With that, I also have a pile, (about a loaf of bread) of the same limestone dust in the middle of the yard for free munching on. "Limestone dust" is simply 100% organic ground into a flour, limestone. Mainly calcium but it also contains other trace amounts of minerals. With the free dusting of the grazing area and the pile available to the tortoise allows free grazing by their needs, not forced by me/us. With this process, (used for many years by me) my tortoise/tortoises haven't and do not past anything close to "toothpaste" more like a thick white latex paint urate. Mine self soak and yes, crap in the water like most, but when they just crap while grazing, that's the urates I find. And trust me, I look!ImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1481179597.357129.jpgImageUploadedByTortoise Forum1481179790.405597.jpg
For size guesstimate, that end of the barn you see is 48' I think. For tortoise sizes, the yard panels are only 16" tall.
 

JoesMum

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Those stones come from the bladder. The key is hydration.
I agree. Those stones are a sign of dehydration.

The solution is repeated long soaks... lots and lots of them ... over a long period until urate is consistently runny.

You just have to hope that all the stones are small enough to pass successfully
 

TerrapinStation

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I am no expert, but I think it took a long time for that stone to form, long before you got the tortoise. It would have kept growing & eventually caused a severe blockage that would have hurt and possibly killed the tortoise.

With the tortoise becoming re-hydrated, it was able to smooth out the stone enough to pass. Poor thing was in pain, but it should be better now.
 

GingerLove

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I agree with Terrapin. I'm so glad your tortoise was able to pass the stone. That must have been very emotionally trying!
 

JohnnyDigester

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I can't thank you all enough for the good advise. So my tortoise "Harold" is doing much better yesterday, it was a nice sunny day with a high of 72 degrees. He was back to himself cruising the entire backyard, munching on baby grass and some rose pedals that had fallen on the sidewalk, soaked him again to be proactive, still no poop, but ill cut him a break after the traumatic event he went through. I offered him some wet down turnip greens and he munched them down like it was tort drugs. So glad he ate because the past week or so he would just sit in the same spot and not move or eat anything, he would only eat a cactus pad, but what tortoise would turn down that? Anyway, I will be keeping up on the soaks until his urates are back to normal. You try and do everything possible to make them thrive and be healthy. I can't help but feel guilty for what happened, I can only blame myself, maybe he wasn't getting enough water, or like a previous post said, maybe it was always there from the previous conditions he was in, and it finally just passed, either way I take responsibility. That stone was so hard I had to use a hacksaw to slice it in half.... something that hard and big did not develope in a short period of time, but i'm no expert. I try my best to read up and research everything I can but it seems something will always happen, maybe that's life I don't know. Hate seeing animals suffer and I am glad I got him and his buddy, they are in much better care with me, better than being stuck in a glass tank with newspaper and no lights. They have been through a lot, now hopefully the other one that I rescued with him will not have this stone issue in the future. Thanks again everyone, I'll continue to do updates to show progress on their health and new smooth growth.
 

JoesMum

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You say he has a buddy. Do you keep them separately? You should.

They're not social and don't get lonely. Both mental and physical bullying are common when sulcatas are kept as pairs. The subordinate tortoise could get very sick indeed and it sounds like these two had enough of a rough ride before you rescued them.
 

JohnnyDigester

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Yes he has a buddy about half the size of him. I only lock them up together in their heated house at night time, the rest of the time they cruise the large backyard, they do their own thing, eat together then wonder away to be alone. Never had any issues with them fighting. Been keeping them like that since I had them. I have been told to separate them, don't see the point when they get along just fine. If issues arise then that's a different story. I have 3 total, the 2 small ones and another larger rescue about 35 lbs, he has his own house, he would crush them otherwise. His story... Got him from a lady who rescued him and nursed him back to health over a couple years as his previous owners kept a heat lamp too close to his shell and burned the majority of his top scutes off down to the flesh. He's doing great now, what a pig he is. Figured I'd help give a tortoise a home rather than buy one, more of a need I think. I'm good and set. They will get big and I will have my hands full, no more for now.
 

chomper2013

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My tortoise I got this September had the same thing happen to her, but she was able to pass it in her own thank goodness. I have been soaking her daily since with no more issues.
 

JohnnyDigester

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wow, that's about the same size as mine. daily soaks seem to be helping for sure. thanks for the reply and sharing your story. best of luck to you.
 
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