Newbie tort enclosure - supply list help

Hello everyone!

I've decided to take the plunge into tortoise ownership. I've been in contact with a breeder and I will find out tomorrow when the breed of tort I want is available (Hermann's). I would like to start buying supplies, however, so I can set things up in advance. I understand it's very important to have a proper setup for hatchlings and I don't want to make a mistake.

Supplies:
- 55 gallon tank with sides/front blocked off halfway (so tort can't see out). Lid made of plexiglass with a hole for an MVB and another hole for a CHE to keep up ambient temps

OR (depends what I can get my hands on first)

- 50 gallon rubbermaid tote, same type of setup. Lid kept on with holes for the MVB and CHE (holes lined in tinfoil to protect plastic)

Reason for CHE is my house is pretty chilly and I want to keep a constant ambient for a hatchling. I was thinking I could put this in the middle so there's still a cool end? It'd go MVB, CHE and then nothing at the other end so there's still a cooler spot... Does that work??

- Substrate of coconut coir
- Humid hide box filled with sphagnum moss (possibly with a heat mat beneath it to increase humidity, on a thermostat of course??)
- Shallow terracotta water dish
- Flat slate rock for under basking light
- Larger pebbles for water dish to sit on
- Another hide
- Thermometers (digital - not sure how many. One for basking spot, one for cool end and one for ambient??)
- Hygrometer (digital)
- Thermostat or lamp dimmer to control lights/temps (one for CHE, one for MVB)

I was thinking about putting some plants in there but I have no green thumb and they'll probably die. I've killed every plant I've ever had

Is there anything I'm missing? Anything that needs to be changed?

A 50 gallon anything would probably be fine for a baby, but they would grow out of it pretty fast. I would personally just start out with something large so you don't have to worry about it later. My tortoise, although I did not get her as a baby, grew twice her size within a year.

Make sure the rocks are large enough that the tortoise cannot eat them. I would also buy cuttlebone to place in the enclosure for nibbling, and you need to know what wattage would be best for the size of the enclosure. MVB's are pretty strong so you don't want the light too close to the tortoise, and you will want to account for enough depth for substrate and the height of the tortoise when taking the distance into consideration.

I don't think the heat mat will be necessary. One light in such a small enclosure should suffice, you don't want the substrate to dry out too fast.

I'm glad you seem to know what you're doing. Good luck with your little guy.

crimson_lotus said:

A 50 gallon anything would probably be fine for a baby, but they would grow out of it pretty fast. I would personally just start out with something large so you don't have to worry about it later. My tortoise, although I did not get her as a baby, grew twice her size within a year.

Everything else sounds fine, just make sure the rocks are large enough that the tortoise cannot eat them. I would also buy cuttlebone to place in the enclosure for nibbling, and you need to know what wattage would be best for the size of the enclosure. MVB's are pretty strong so you don't want the light too close to the tortoise, and you will want to account for enough depth for substrate and the height of the tortoise when taking the distance into consideration.

I don't think the heat mat will be necessary. One light in such a small enclosure should suffice, you don't want the substrate to dry out too fast.

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I know the tort will outgrow it quickly. I'm going to search for someone to make me a wooden closed chamber enclosure but that will take time. I have absolutely no building skills so I'll have to save up and hire someone to build me something.

I'm going to see if I can eventually get someone to build me a very long one of these for the Hermann's. With the lip in front big enough that the tort won't be able to see out and all the heating inside (and no vent in the back). I'm just not sure how big I would need it.

A very warm welcome to the forum!

Welcome! You have quite a nice list already I think!
It's good to know you cannot put a MVB on a thermostate. I have my MVB on a timer (on for 14 hours a day), and a CHE on a thermostate. The thermostate I have on the cooler part of the enclosure (to maintain the right 'basis' temp). On the other side I have a thermometer which I can move around to check warm and basking temps. Because the thermostate is also a thermometer you don't need three of them. And once everything was set up correctly I didn't check all temps every day. Just play around with it before your tort arrives.

Good luck with your new tort!

Flate slate rock shouldn't be put under basking lamp because Hermanns don't bask on rocks

The biggest I can build that cage up there to fit in my room is 2 feet by 7 feet. Is that okay? The Hermann's would be outside in the summer.

I was thinking to just build full size. I can divide it for when it's a really small baby so I don't lose it!

Okay, so here's an updated pic. I labelled it a bit with what I intend to do. My sis and her boyfriend are nice enough to build this for me for my birthday. I have also found a baby Hermann's tort through a really good breeder and I'm sending half the payment for it tomorrow. I'll have it in about 2 weeks so I'm going to have to set up a temporary 50 gallon bin with the MVB until my big tank is finished. No biggie. I know I can easily keep up enough humidity in one of those. I'm going to buy the supplies asap so I can have it all set up and ready, though. I know it takes a few days for the humidity to level off.



My plan is to hang an MVB on the lefthand side (using a garden planter hanger thing, cord through a hole drilled in the back). In the middle I would like to mount a fluorescent light to light the enclosure and to also give off a bit of heat (can it just be any workshop fluorescent tube? I've seen some enclosed type fixtures and then just the bulb with mounting equipment). I've seen this done on another enclosure here. Is it safe? This is the link (http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/2015-growth-experiment.119874/). On the far side I wanted to mount a radiated heat panel, but they're very expensive ($150-$180 here). I might do a CHE on a thermostat instead, so I can maintain a constant temp. If I go that route, I would hang another ceramic dome light fixture on the right side.

Worry #1. I was reading info on the light fixtures on Petsmart's website and it says not to mount it inside the enclosure and not to put it in a wet environment. I really want all the heating in the enclosure. I assume they just put all those warnings to cover their butts. I would secure the fixture really well so there was no chance of it falling.

Worry #1. Wattage for MVB. I was only going to make the tank 24 inches high and I don't want to cook my little baby. Should I go with the 100w? I think that's the lowest wattage available.

Here's another question.... Since the enclosure is 7 feet long, would it be better to install 2 CHE's? One in the middle and one on the right hand side. Both would be on a thermostat to keep it at a constant temp. I'm really worried about the ambient dropping down since my house is so cool. The answer will decide whether I order a Herpstat 1 or 2.

I have 2 CHE's in a 4x4 enclosure, one is 100W and the other is 150W. The 150 is on a thermostat for 85 degrees so it turns on and off periodically to make sure the enclosure doesn't get too hot, plus a UVB tube. If you have one of the lights on a thermostat your tortoise will not be cooked. You will need to play around with it to see what you need in your home.

My turtle has an MVB...his basking spot gets pretty hot in a 50g tank, but his dock is also halfway up the tank. I'd say with a 100W MVB his basking spot is about 100 degrees about 1 foot away.

I'm a little concerned with the 2ft height, as you will need about 5 inches of substrate, plus your tortoises height, plus the lamp length. Will the lights be hanging down?

grandlinegirl said:

On the far side I wanted to mount a radiated heat panel, but they're very expensive ($150-$180 here). I might do a CHE on a thermostat instead, so I can maintain a constant temp. If I go that route, I would hang another ceramic dome light fixture on the right side.

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You're in Canada, right? I've ordered RBI radiant heat panels from LLLreptile and even with the exchange rate and shipping to Canada, all but the 160 W model are cheaper than that. The exchange rate is particularly bad right now though...

In my 8ft long closed chamber, I get about a 10F temp difference from one end to the other, and that's with a long radiant heat panel at one end. Since the CHE is even more of a point source, I'd expect you'd have a sharper temperature gradient than that. I think two CHEs (or radiant heat panels) makes more sense (my next build will have two) so you have more control over the temp gradient.

crimson_lotus said:

I have 2 CHE's in a 4x4 enclosure, one is 100W and the other is 150W. The 150 is on a thermostat for 85 degrees so it turns on and off periodically to make sure the enclosure doesn't get too hot, plus a UVB tube. If you have one of the lights on a thermostat your tortoise will not be cooked. You will need to play around with it to see what you need in your home.

My turtle has an MVB...his basking spot gets pretty hot in a 50g tank, but his dock is also halfway up the tank. I'd say with a 100W MVB his basking spot is about 100 degrees about 1 foot away.

I'm a little concerned with the 2ft height, as you will need about 5 inches of substrate, plus your tortoises height, plus the lamp length. Will the lights be hanging down?

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I like the idea of the two CHE's with different wattages. I think I'll probably do that. Do I only need to control the temp of the 150w? The 100w can be left alone and it won't get too hot? There's a huge difference in thermostats. The herpstat 1 is $170 and the herpstat 2 (that can control both CHE's) is $245 here. So if I can get away with just controlling the temp of the higher watt light, that'd be awesome.

I can change the height of the enclosure. It's not set in stone yet. How high should I make it with the lights? They will be hanging down from dome fixtures. If I made it say, 4 feet tall, would that give me more room to play with the height of the lights to get proper temps or would that make it harder to heat?

SarahChelonoidis said:

You're in Canada, right? I've ordered RBI radiant heat panels from LLLreptile and even with the exchange rate and shipping to Canada, all but the 160 W model are cheaper than that. The exchange rate is particularly bad right now though...

In my 8ft long closed chamber, I get about a 10F temp difference from one end to the other, and that's with a long radiant heat panel at one end. Since the CHE is even more of a point source, I'd expect you'd have a sharper temperature gradient than that. I think two CHEs (or radiant heat panels) makes more sense (my next build will have two) so you have more control over the temp gradient.

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Yes, I am. With the exchange, shipping and duties/fees I don't think it'd be feasible to order from the States.

I agree, thank you. I think two CHE's make sense so I can control the overall temp. I can always save up and switch to rhp's at a later time. I chose the wrong time of year to get an expensive pet! lol.

Now that I'm thinking... by the time I buy 2 CHE bulbs and 2 fixtures, I might as well just splurge for a radiant heat panel. I found an 80 watt heat panel (12 1/2 by 22 1/2) for $120, a 120 watt (12 1/2 by 32 1/2) for $120 and a 160 watt (12 1/2 by 42 1/2) for $170. That one might be the best idea since it'll span most of the enclosure? Or would the 120 watt one do?

Sorry for all my questions. These are big purchases and I want to make sure I get things right!

grandlinegirl said:

Now that I'm thinking... by the time I buy 2 CHE bulbs and 2 fixtures, I might as well just splurge for a radiant heat panel. I found an 80 watt heat panel (12 1/2 by 22 1/2) for $120, a 120 watt (12 1/2 by 32 1/2) for $120 and a 160 watt (12 1/2 by 42 1/2) for $170. That one might be the best idea since it'll span most of the enclosure? Or would the 120 watt one do?

Sorry for all my questions. These are big purchases and I want to make sure I get things right!

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I use the 42.5"x12.5" 160 W RBI panel and am happy with it, but if I were to do it again, I'd actually spend more money and buy two smaller wattage panels to place at opposite ends (instead of one big one at one end). Still. If you mount it in the centre, it'll do a nice job heating an enclosure your size. My space is a little larger and it works well for me. You could likely get away with the 120 W too, but it'll depend how well insulated your enclosure is and how cold your ambient temps are. A thermostat is a must.

SarahChelonoidis said:

I use the 42.5"x12.5" 160 W RBI panel and am happy with it, but if I were to do it again, I'd actually spend more money and buy two smaller wattage panels to place at opposite ends (instead of one big one at one end). Still. If you mount it in the centre, it'll do a nice job heating an enclosure your size. My space is a little larger and it works well for me. You could likely get away with the 120 W too, but it'll depend how well insulated your enclosure is and how cold your ambient temps are. A thermostat is a must.

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I just ordered my thermostat I ordered a Herpstat 1. I'm going to wait until my next paycheck to buy the heat panel. Gotta space things out a bit with Christmas coming... I think it's going to take some time for the enclosure to be built, anyway.

Thanks for all of your help! I really appreciate it. I like to have everything planned in advance so I know exactly what I'm doing.

Are you still doing a smaller 50g tank or rubbermaid? Following the heating/lighting choices for that (as well as the bigger set-up for future reference) because that's what I'm setting up now. Good luck!

BriGuy31 said:

Are you still doing a smaller 50g tank or rubbermaid? Following the heating/lighting choices for that (as well as the bigger set-up for future reference) because that's what I'm setting up now. Good luck!

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I'll have to set up a rubbermaid for the little one when I get it. Once I get the enclosure, I'll still have to seal/stain it myself (which is going to take a while) and then start setting it up. I still have to buy the radiant heat panel for it ($170) and then get the decor ready... With Christmas right around the corner, it's definitely going to take some time for me to finance this. But! I'm definitely going to set up the rubbermaid properly so it can live comfortably until it's big home is ready.

I'll add pics as I set up the bin! Maybe this can help someone else out in the future

I'm wondering... Does anyone think acrylic would hold up for the doors if I can't find resonably priced glass? I'm worried about it scratching up as the doors are opened and closed.