Sulcata Newbie building Tort table-Check my specs

JoshSloane

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Hey Everyone,

I am a long time boa/python breeder that has decided to get into keeping tortoises. I have spent the last couple years speaking with tort breeders, and doing my own research as well. I always like to build my own enclosures, so I have begun my tortoise table. My hatchling is being held by the breeder until I complete the enclosure. I have noticed that there are a few discrepancies and disagreements among many sulcata keepers, so I wanted to run my enclosure by you all and see what you think.

My initial plans allowed for a 5'x3' tortoise table, with 8" high side walls. I am however thinking about bumping this up to 6'x3'. On the cool side I will add a 3'x10" over hang, with a doorway, simulating a burrow. I will have a hinge on the overhang so that I can open to mist the substrate, and check on the hatchling. I plan on this functioning as the humid burrow.

On the hot side I am planning on a 100w powersun MVB to act as both my heat and UVB. I will have this positioned no less than 12" from the ground of the enclosure, and play with the height to achieve a 100 degree basking spot, on a piece of slate.

I am going to use wide terra cotta saucers as water bowls, and have a few placed throughout the enclosure. Also planning on having a couple log hides interspersed throughout so the hatchling can find shelter at various temperatures. As a sealant, I am going to cover the entire inside with Drylok. Have had great success with it in the past in sealing wooden enclosures from moisture.

For substrate I will mix cypress mulch and organic top soil. For feed I am going to do spring mix lettuce, dandelion leaves, kale, turnip greens, hay, and some mazuri tortoise food.

Here are my direct questions:
1. I personally like using MVBs, and have had success in the past with them. I have also seen that many threads on this forum, and other care sheets recommend them. Will a 100w powersun mvb, in my 5'x3' or 6'x3' enclosure be able to provide sufficient uvb without creating excessive heat? My herp room sits in the high 70s, usually 77-81 ambient temps most of the year.

2. Do I absolutely need to have added heat during the night? Even at night, with all the lights off, my herp room stays in the mid 70s at least. If I did need night heat I was thinking of a CHE or a infrared bulb on a dimmer/rheostat just to bump temps a bit.

Please evaluate my setup, and let me know what you all think.
 
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Vladsfriend

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Welcome to the forum, Josh!

You seem to have a lot of good details ironed out. Bigger is always better, especially with a species that will get so large. I can't help with a lot of your questions, but I had a question about your use of Drylok. It's traditionally applied to masonry. Have you had good success with other products like plywood, for instance?
 

JoshSloane

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Thanks for the reply. Yes, drylok can be applied directly to sanded wood and sticks like a charm. This stuff is tough as nails, fully water tight and resistant to just about anything. Holds up well to monitor nails and years of abuse.

My questions are mainly about the use of MVBs with sulcata hatchlings. I'm 90% sold on the 100w powersun
 

wellington

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Hello and Welcome. Please read the threads below in my post for proper housing, temps and humidity to raise a healthy and smooth sulcata. In the reading you will find that your rooms temp is too cold. A cold and humid tort is a very sick or dead tort. Hot and humid is a healthy smooth tort.
 

JoshSloane

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80 degree ambient temps are too cold? Everything I have read so far peg that as ideal.
 

wellington

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You said the room gets 70's. 80 is the lowest it should be and that's with 80% humidity
 

JoshSloane

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Nope. In my first post I said my herp room sits in the high 70s, 77-81. Night temps are mid to high 70s.
 

wellington

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However you want to look at it is fine with me. But temps should not go below 80 if your doing the right humidity.
You have 70's listed and it should not go into the 70's
 

JoshSloane

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I'm sorry but I'm confused. What do you mean by "however you want to look at it."

Maybe we just aren't communicating here.

The ambient temps I listed were my background room temps, not the temps within the enclosure. I imagine once the heating elements are in place, the actual ambients the tort would experience will be higher than the room high 70s.
 

wellington

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#2 first post. You asked if you would even need added heat at night. Then you meantion your temps being in the 70's. So, yes you will need heat at night.
How ever you want to look at it, meaning your temps being mentioned in the 70's and 80's they can't be in the 70's.
I'm sure if we were talking and not typing this all would be easily understood. Sometimes typing can get misunderstood.
I just really want you to understand, no temps below 80 with an 80% humidity.
I think you get it, your just not connecting my answers to your questions.
All good, it's all in the threads I mentioned you should read.
 

JoshSloane

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Ok yes I definitely understand. I was confused which part of my post you were referring to. So for night heat, I'm thinking a CHE regulated by a dimmer or thermostat. So I assume I would position this over the burrow? If I'm misting the enclosure/burrow to increase humidity, would a herpstat probe withstand this high moisture?

Any other thoughts for increasing night time temps? My ambients in the room are the result of several racks and large enclosures. I was considering using a room heater on a thermostat to just keep the herp room in the low 80s full time.
 

JoshSloane

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Is the open top tortoise table itself an ok idea? Almost all the care sheets I see recommend it, but I'm seeing some recommending more of a closed chamber aquarium setup. If I had a burrow and soaked the tort regularly is a tort table good?
 

mike taylor

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For a sulcata its best to build a closed chamber enclosure . This will save you on trying to keep in heat and humidity . Check out Tom's threads in the sulcata section . It will save you time and money in the long run .
 

JoshSloane

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I already have materials bought and wood cut. Can an open table not work? I see tons of images of those all over this forum.
 

JoshSloane

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Ok maybe I can modify to make it a closed chamber. I see Tom recommends a closed chamber until they are 8". What size enclosure should I build to accommodate up to that size?
 

mike taylor

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I had my little ones in a big fish tank . It was two foot wide four foot long . I kept him in that at night . I had a 4/6 enclosure outside that he stayed in all day . Here in Houston we have high humidity and good temps . If you follow Tom's threads as close as you can you will have no problems.
 

JoshSloane

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Yeah I'm trying to piece together his advice to fit my situation. I'm in Colorado and we are constantly dry.
 

Tom

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The problem with "research" is that most of what is out there is old, outdated and wrong. In time you would figure all this out on your own, but I would like to save you and your new tortoise the trouble.

First off: How did this breeder start this baby? This is critical to your success and most breeders still start them all wrong and far too dry. Read these BEFORE you take delivery of any baby:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-incubate-eggs-and-start-hatchlings.124266/
After reading, you will know what questions to ask of your breeder.

Next up: Open tables are not good for baby sulcatas. There is no way to keep the temperatures and humidity up unless the whole room stays warm and humid all the time. Mid 70's is too cold. We need to be simulating the African rainy season that sulcatas hatch into. It is hot, rainy, wet, humid, and there are puddles, marshes and green growing food everywhere.

Powersuns run too hot for most closed chambers and 12" might be too close. Only your thermometer can tell you the correct mounting height for YOUR bulb in YOUR enclosure.

I like the DryLok too. I used it here:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/2015-growth-experiment.119874/
Its working very well for me.

I don't like cypress mulch for baby sulcatas. Too big and chunky, too many sharp edges and points and it usually smells "swampy". I really don't like topsoil because there is no way to know what its made of. Could be composted azaleas and oleander with pesticide residue mixed in. No thanks. Fine grade orchid bark works the best for baby sulcatas.

Your diet choices are not the best. Here are some better healthier suggestions:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
I try to avoid grocery store greens if possible, and hay will usually not be eaten by little ones. Mine usually don't start munching dry hay until they are 12" or more, and even then they have to be hungry.

Your questions:
1. MVBs are fine, but if you have the right enclosure for a baby sulcata, the MVB will be too hot. If you ignore all of my advice and use an open table anyway, you will need the 160 flood for such a large area. Sulcatas like it warm. One little warm spot in a 77 degree large open table is not an ideal environment for a baby sulcata.
2. If you warm the room up a little more, up to 80, then you won't need night heat over your little baby sulcata. Otherwise, you should have at least one or two CHEs set on a thermostat.

All of this and more is explained here:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/
 

JoshSloane

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Thanks for the response Tom. After reading many threads on this forum I can see you are definitely the man with the plan. Ok, I'm going to bite on the closed chamber enclosure. Will use the already cut boards for the Burmese python.

So from what I've heard on here, it seems best to at least use the closed chamber until the tort is out of the baby stage, and around 8-10"? I'm thinking I will build a 4x2x2 enclosure. 65w basking light, tube uv, and CHE for night heat over the burrow. Will this be adequate to get the hatchling out of their humidity sensitive phase?
 

Tom

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Thanks for the response Tom. After reading many threads on this forum I can see you are definitely the man with the plan. Ok, I'm going to bite on the closed chamber enclosure. Will use the already cut boards for the Burmese python.

So from what I've heard on here, it seems best to at least use the closed chamber until the tort is out of the baby stage, and around 8-10"? I'm thinking I will build a 4x2x2 enclosure. 65w basking light, tube uv, and CHE for night heat over the burrow. Will this be adequate to get the hatchling out of their humidity sensitive phase?

I would go bigger. To house a 6-10" sulcata indoors, you will need something closer to 4x8' If you build a 4x2 and get a healthy well started baby, you will be building another larger enclosure in 4 months.

Humidity is an issue for any tortoise that is growing. There is not a magical size where humidity suddenly doesn't matter. I always have a tough time when I have to move them outside full time, because it is so dry here. I have been compensating by humidifying their night boxes. This seems to be working for me, but even 20-24" tortoises still need some humidity to grow properly.

I usually put the CHE over the middle of the enclosure. I use them to maintain ambient warmth, not so much to generate a warmer area underneath them.

Please come back with any questions or inquiries. We are here to talk torts and you sound like you already know a lot about what you are doing!
 
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