tortadise Wrote:Here are some lovely chaco tortoise photos I took a while back. I enjoy them so hope you guys do too.

I went to Argentina in 2005 and again in 2006 and the highlight of my trip were seeing up close and personal Chaco tortoise, it was love at first sight. Do you breed them??? If you don't do you know if it's possible to bring one from Argentina legally??? Now that my home is tort friendly I would seriously consider going back for one of those beautiful creatures.

Good question. Can they be legally brought in? I don't think they are endangered down there and it would be great to get some captive breeding happening. I bet they'd do great in my area.

No they cannot. Argentina has the subspecies of 1 of the 3 chaco tortises. They are critically endangered in argentina patagonian desert of the Gran Chaco regions. Paraguay can legally export, but has not because of false CITES paperwork in the previous years and have shut down export since 2008. Bolivia does not export these from thier regions, nor does a smal portion of Brazil where they are found

Chacos are legal to bring in from Argentina. They are laundered under Captive Bred paperwork which is what makes them Illegal, and are subsequently confiscated every time. Only a few people have been stupid enough to try it, and one is sitting in jail for the next 25 years. Last time USFW let them in was Daytona of 2010? or 09' when one Argentinian Exporter brought a bunch of stuff over for the show. There are a few people breeding them over there, but no one is going to grow them to 4" just to sell them for pennies on the dollar compared to sending them to other Countries when they hatch. In some areas they are considered Agricultural Pests, and are subsequently dismembered with a shovel similar to the way some Testudo species are treated in the Mediterranean........

Cool pics!

(10-23-2012 11:44 AM)EricIvins Wrote:  Chacos are legal to bring in from Argentina. They are laundered under Captive Bred paperwork which is what makes them Illegal, and are subsequently confiscated every time. Only a few people have been stupid enough to try it, and one is sitting in jail for the next 25 years. Last time USFW let them in was Daytona of 2010? or 09' when one Argentinian Exporter brought a bunch of stuff over for the show. There are a few people breeding them over there, but no one is going to grow them to 4" just to sell them for pennies on the dollar compared to sending them to other Countries when they hatch. In some areas they are considered Agricultural Pests, and are subsequently dismembered with a shovel similar to the way some Testudo species are treated in the Mediterranean........

Thank you for the info.

So why can't we bring some legal, legitimate ones in? Does the 4" rule apply here? Is this why you mentioned no one would want to raise them up to that size for a small amount of money? So If a source for legal ones could be found in Argentina, and they were the right size, they could, in theory, be legally brought in with all the necessary permits? Is it that no one will put up the money because they fear the government will assume the paperwork is phony and confiscate them?

I'd certainly rather see them in breeding colonies here than dismember in some South American farmer's field.

Bert Langerwerf was able to bring Tegus in from Argentina, not so long ago. Doesn;t seem like it should be such an impossible task. Please, lay some more education on me.

(10-23-2012 12:15 PM)Tom Wrote:  

(10-23-2012 11:44 AM)EricIvins Wrote:  Chacos are legal to bring in from Argentina. They are laundered under Captive Bred paperwork which is what makes them Illegal, and are subsequently confiscated every time. Only a few people have been stupid enough to try it, and one is sitting in jail for the next 25 years. Last time USFW let them in was Daytona of 2010? or 09' when one Argentinian Exporter brought a bunch of stuff over for the show. There are a few people breeding them over there, but no one is going to grow them to 4" just to sell them for pennies on the dollar compared to sending them to other Countries when they hatch. In some areas they are considered Agricultural Pests, and are subsequently dismembered with a shovel similar to the way some Testudo species are treated in the Mediterranean........

Thank you for the info.

So why can't we bring some legal, legitimate ones in? Does the 4" rule apply here? Is this why you mentioned no one would want to raise them up to that size for a small amount of money? So If a source for legal ones could be found in Argentina, and they were the right size, they could, in theory, be legally brought in with all the necessary permits? Is it that no one will put up the money because they fear the government will assume the paperwork is phony and confiscate them?

I'd certainly rather see them in breeding colonies here than dismember in some South American farmer's field.

Bert Langerwerf was able to bring Tegus in from Argentina, not so long ago. Doesn;t seem like it should be such an impossible task. Please, lay some more education on me.

The 4" rule is why you don't see hardly any of the rare Turtles and Tortoises in the US. While in theory they can be brought in, USFW will more than likely confiscate them. There is not one person in the US with an Import/Export license that is willing to take that chance. Not with the fallout that would have them loose their licenses and livelyhood. Paraguay is a viable option, but you would be hard pressed to find anyone willing to take a chance on a group of Chacos with loss rates near 100%.

Tegus are completely different. They are farmed by the thousands for both the pet, skin, and meat trade........

What doesn't seem like such a hard task usually is, which is why you don't see them available. Too much investment to loose your rear on. No one in their right mind is going to raise these animals to 4", when they can sell them to Japan or China as hatchlings for 5x what any American would pay. This is why we don't see Cherryheads from Brazil anymore. The Brazilian Gov't allows them to be Exported, but the american dollar is valued way too low to compete with the Asians.......

( I could bring in at least 4 different Cherryhead "types" being bred down there right now........)

What I'm not understanding is, why would USFW confiscate them and people lose licenses or get jail time if everything was carefully done legally and above board?

I know some of these agencies have become rogue maniac bullies. Is that the case here with USFW?

For instance, what is the difference between bringing in Russians from Khazikstan (a common occurrence), and chacos from Argentina?

I did hear about the recent pancakes that were imported legally and then the government whackos went around confiscating any that were still left, after the fact. That was a friend of mine. Do you know what that was all about? Is it all sort of related?

poison Wrote:can somebody post the link to the vid? all i can find is the trailer

You have to buy the DVD from the website if I am not mistaken. I just ordered one. The digital version is cheaper.

(10-23-2012 02:54 PM)safari_lass1 Wrote:  

poison Wrote:can somebody post the link to the vid? all i can find is the trailer

You have to buy the DVD from the website if I am not mistaken. I just ordered one. The digital version is cheaper.

ah ok let me know if its worth it

Hey Kelly...GREAT shots! I hate to slap you in the face...but any of those shots would've made the calendar!

Well one of them was in the voting poll. Wasn't too popular with the votes. All I can say is I tried

tortadise Wrote:Well one of them was in the voting poll. Wasn't too popular with the votes. All I can say is I tried

I voted!!!! I printed it off and hung it on my wall anyways ) gave my Chaco some company lol

(10-23-2012 04:20 PM)safari_lass1 Wrote:  

tortadise Wrote:Well one of them was in the voting poll. Wasn't too popular with the votes. All I can say is I tried

I voted!!!! I printed it off and hung it on my wall anyways ) gave my Chaco some company lol

Well thank you. I liked the photo I used too.

Those Chaco photos warmed my heart...what my Taco would look like with a perfect shell. A mirror image of my sweetheart!

Thanks. It's nice to see such a perfect specimen.

And definitely submit again for next year's calendar. A Chaco would be the perfect addition to that project.